User talk:Antvasima

Welcome
Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the Omnipotence page!

Please leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything! Kuopiofi (talk) 16:48, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

tenchi
why do i keep removing him? because hes not omnipotent simple as that. that is not proof dude. kami has no feats and has not been stated to be omnipotent. you can say hes stronger than this or more powerful than that. that just means hes a stronger NIGH omnipotent being than the choushin.

But the Choushin have the same or better (creating 12-dimensional reality trumphs creating 5-dimensional reality) qualifications as Eru Illuvatar, the Creator, and The Lord Of Nightmares, and they are included. I don't get it. Could you please watch the Tenchi Muyo OAV3 if you want proof? Because that's the only way to illustrate that I know of. Antvasima (talk) 19:43, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

tenchi
dude, ive watched tenchi before. hes not omnipotent. and just because you created something that has more dimensions doesnt mean youre stronger, the 5th dimensional imps only come from the 5th dimension they DID NOT create it. i dont know about the other guys. but the choushin  questioned a power even greater than their own. that right there makes them not omnipotent.

Well, when he started to manifest he almost destroyed all of 12-dimensional reality, and Mister Mxyzptlk was stated to have created the DC multiverse in Grant Morrison's Action Comics. Have you watched episode 14-20 of the OAV series? If not, please do so. Antvasima (talk) 20:04, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Archangels/Castiel
Well, take a look at those pages. The Archangels were imbued with godlike power by God and are among the most powerful beings in the SPN universe, exceeded only by God and Death. They can achieve virtually anything via Reality Warping, which itself is a nigh-omnipotent power. Gabriel has proven that alot in his appearences, being able to trap others into a TV show, resurrect effortlessly,pretty much anything he wants. The same goes for the other Archangels. Lucifer was able to slay a dozen of powerful deities,despite him being in a decaying vessel. Michael, the eldest and most powerful, could slay his younger brothers, and could pretty much do anything except defeat God and Death.

Castiel too, was nigh omnipotent but only when he had the souls of Purgatory enhancing his powers to a godlike level. He became one of the most powerful beings in the SPN universe, exceeding the Archangels (well, atleast over Raphael and Gabriel, he himself implied that Michael and Lucifer were still more powerful.) Like the Archangels, he was still exceeded by God and Death. Even then, he could pretty much run the universe, as Bobby said to Crowley.

TVtropes probably said "planetary level" because Earth is the only planet they show on the show itself, not the limit of their powers. Gabriel456 (talk) 20:06, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the answer. Antvasima (talk) 20:08, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. Gabriel456 (talk) 20:13, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Thread
Sorry, I don't really know anything about that user so I don't think I'd be able to help with that Gabriel456 (talk) 20:24, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'd only need your input on the thread. Less omnipotemt characters have been listed, so I think that Kami Tenchi should as well. The only iffy point is if omniscence is required. It is not certain that he possesses that, despite his more than infinite power. Antvasima (talk) 20:33, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

It does require Omniscience. So if he has infinite power but not infinite knowledge, he'd fit more in Ultipotence. Gabriel456 (talk) 20:41, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for all the help. Antvasima (talk) 06:47, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

..
you're fucking stupid, off yourself cunt Dr solar (talk) 20:57, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

You are apparently a retarded troll, a who can't even spell, much less think. Oh and you have no arguments whatsoever to counter with. I have reported you to an admin. Antvasima (talk) 21:06, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

god you have to be the dumbest fucking person on this website,  tell me then you slack jawed retard if kami tenchi is leagues above the chousin in everyway does that not include omniscience???????? do you know what omniscience is????

The Choushin aren't  omniscient as far as I know, just more intelligent than every other being in the multiverse. They had to create the multiverse as an experiment to ascertain various facts, including if there was a being higher than themselves, and did not know the exact actual effects. But I'm fine with adding Kami Tenchi to omnipotence as well, if you prefer that. He is the supreme deity of his 12-dimensional/more than omniversal reality, possesses up to 15 degrees of infinite power above most other entries in omnipotence and ultipotence, nearly destroyed all of reality simply from manifesting, and so onwards. If you start being reasonable and lay off with the trolling, bad spelling, assumptions, and death threats, it is far easier to get anywhere. Antvasima (talk) 21:25, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

he's stated as being omniscient since Tenchi's mind is being overwhelmed by it as he's transforming as Washu notes till Kami Tenchi's projection calms him down. and youre just making up bullshit, like this "He is the supreme deity of his 12-dimensional/more than omniversal reality" where does it state that hes omniversal? find me proof dude, you have absolutely no evidence to this claim. none. kami has NO feats to show that he stronger than them. it isnt stated ANYWHERE in the series that hes omnipotent. oh and you insulted me first. dont do it again or you will get shitted on. like i said, provide feats that hes above them all. provide evidence from the canon source material.Dr solar (talk) 21:37, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Omniversal only requires  5-6 dimensions. The Choushin have at least 12, and created all of their entire 12-dimensional reality. Kami Tenchi was stated and shown outright to be the fulfillment of their experiment to fin a being far higher than themselves, and he almost destroyed all of the 12 dimensions when manifesting, and effortlessly stopped and reverted the Counter-Actor, a being composed of the sum total counterforce to the Choushin's 12-dimensional experiments. In comparison, Mxyzptlk was badöy outmatched against the Ultimator, a 10-dimensional entity. Also, ALL higher-dimensional entities possess at least infinite power and the ability to manipulate the lower dimensions easier than we would a two dimensional drawing or piece of paper. Antvasima (talk) 21:45, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Anyway, I'm fine with adding him to the Omnipotence section instead if you prefer. After all, what is Tge Lord Of Nightmares' feat? Creating its' multiverse and being the supreme being there. What is Eru's and the Creator's feat? Ditto. What is the Choushin's feat? There you go. Who is the only being higher up than they are? Kami Tenchi. Antvasima (talk) 21:51, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

WHAT????? "omniversal only requires 5-6 dimensions"  sigh.... there you go again shouting made up bullshit. prove it dude, where does it say that?? you just made that up. and when he reverted the counter reactor, that was just matter/energy transmutation. something lesser tier characters do with ease as well. you see the thing about the all the omnipotent characters youve stated is that they have actually been referred to as omnipotent and havent been proven not to be like the chousin and kami.. and kami tenchi lacks full blown omniscience to be on there he is nigh omnipotent dude.Dr solar (talk) 21:57, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Well, there are the 3 dimensions that we live in, then there is time, then alternate timelines. That makes 5 dimensions, which are also the ones that Mxyzptlk and the imps encompass according to Crisis Times 5. Then there is cubed time according to Grant Morrisson, which presumably either means completely separate realities (omniversal), or entire planar spectrums of timelines intersecting with each other. The Counteractor was a 12-dimensional entity, reverting it means messing with and rewriting 12-dimensional reality structures, which is much harder than simply turning 3 dimensional reality topsy turvy. Ultipotence is fine as I said. Just make up your mind if you want him in omnipotence as supreme deity of his reality, or in ultipotence, as a being simiöar to, but much higher up than Mxyzptlk? Nigh omnipotence is far beneath a being of his stature. Antvasima (talk) 22:07, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to bed now, so I will answer more replies tomorrow. I apologise about the insult. I wss frustrated and in a bad mood. As long as we can talk about this and be reasonable I have no problem with you. Antvasima (talk) 22:17, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Crisis Times 5 is not canon. "Then there is cubed time according to Grant Morrissn, which presumably eitger means completely separate realities" sigh..... no, it means exactly what it means, sperate realities, not omniversal. sorry. lol and im just going to keep taking him off. "Counteractor was a 12-dimensional entity, revertimg it means messing with and rewriting 12-dimensional reality structures" no he just used mattr/energy transmutation. stop bsing dude, nowhere did it state that he was "messing with 12 dimensional reality structures" he simply used transmutation. Dr solar (talk) 22:19, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Crisis Times 5 happened in the regular JLA book. It is canon, and makes perfect sense, as the imps have 5 dimensions. Omniversal means separate multiverses/realities as far as I have had it explained, but you may be right. And transforming a 12-dimensional entity means using 12-dimensional power, which he also used when almost destroying all of reality simply by existing. Beyond that the Choushin stated that he was beyond them. Antvasima (talk) 22:26, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

As a side-note, here is the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of Omniverse:

"Main Entry: om·ni·verse Pronunciation: \ˈämnə̇ˌvərs, -və̄s, -vəis\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): -s Etymology: omn- + -verse (as in universe)


 * a universe that is spatiotemporally four-dimensional"

Four-dimensional time plus three-dimensional space makes seven dimensions. Kami Tenchi has several dimensions more than the twelve-dimensional Choushin. Hence, he is far far far more than infinitely far above Omniversal. Antvasima (talk) 09:19, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Ultipotence
Would you two keep your argument in Talk-pages until it's finally finished and then do the Edit? It's getting annoying to the point I'm starting to consider locking Ultipotence until you can agree about it. --Kuopiofi (talk) 07:46, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Couldn't you or other admins check the discussion above, and then decide and lock the page? I'm trying to be reasonable, but so far, Solar won't listen. Antvasima (talk) 08:00, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Got a definite proof for that, from canon instead of fanon (ie. link to the page where that point is made, quotes and definite, direct Word of God or something of that level). From what I've heard he's avatar of that power at best. --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:41, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Tenchi himself is the avatar of a more than 13 dimensional entity, but Kami Tenchi is that entity itself. It is a major plot point of, and stated outright in, Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Ohki OAV3 anime that the three 12 or 13 dimensional entitites that created the multiverse, and all the 12 dimensions within it, did so in order to make experiments and higher-dimensional anomalies, to find a being higher than themselves/outside of the dimensions that they can perceive, and the result of that search for trillions of years was the entity that started to manifest in episode 19, and almost destroyed all of existence by doing so. It also started talking with Tenchi and effortlessly neutralised a being apparently on par with the 3 multiverse creators.

Lower 5-dimensional beings such as Mxyzptlk and the possibly just 4-dimensional Azathoth were listed, and the Wheel Of Time God, The Lord Of Nightmares and Eru Illuvatar who I think only created universes or multiverses, not 12-dimensional reality were listed, so I thought that why should those supreme beings be included and not Kami Tenchi, who is higher than beings who did the same thing or more.

However,  if you require more than that/don't have time to watch the entire OAV3, as far as I understand, the writer is something of a recluse who doesn't do interviews. He does however write quite a lot of novels and doujinshi for the series, but those are in Japanese. I could ask on a Tenchi Muyo forum for help with if the official extra material says more? Antvasima (talk) 12:04, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Little reminder about those outside TM beings: unless their creators agree, listing them means a zip. It's just someones personal opinion (even if it was TM verse creators) and doesn't have any weight outside the 'verse. Same goes to argument about Kami Tenchi, he might be Be-All on his verse, outside it only so much as other verses acknowledge him.

That aside, you're not trying to convince me here. I don't care about this, aside it being disruptive on the site. You're trying to convince your opposite number, and he seems to be unimpressed. --Kuopiofi (talk) 12:48, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Well, he threatened to kill me, so I was hoping that you or some other admin could take over the issue? Antvasima (talk) 14:11, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Btw. Here is a clip for when Tenchi awakens, even in his regular untrained avatar form. The dimensional wardens are the supreme beings of their respective dimensions, and level 6+ are way above Mxyzptlk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibrkGbKriP8 Antvasima (talk) 16:14, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Omni/Ulti/whateverpotence
You two mind using your Talk-pages to clear this thing up, your edit/delete cycle isn't interesting to anyone else here. And don't bother to contact me about how you are right, it's between you two to argue it out. --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:47, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

Gohan Buu and Omega Shenron
For Antvasima

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHuJV3ZceoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEIVRmDNWaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vn8zj0JimA

Gohan Buu, in the anime, was collapsing the entire universe through chain reaction, although it had to lose control of himself.

As told by Old Kai, Omega Shenron would corrode and destroy the entire universe in a short period through the minus power, and during the battle with Gogeta showed he could concentrate all energy to a single attack, a universal buster attack.

Thanks. I checked through all of them.

Apparently the anime is different from the manga, but the thing is that all we see Gohan Buu actually doing is open up several holes in local space. Goku claiming that this would be enough to make alternate universes destroy his own is very suspect and unproven.

The second case is more reliable, given that the Dai Kaioshin makes the claim, but given that it would have been a gradual process, starting with Earth and then enveloping other planets and stars, one at a time, I'm not sure if it counts as an actual universe-buster. Maybe we could insert only Omega Shenron, and put (Allegedly and gradually) in a parenthesis? Antvasima (talk) 06:36, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

The fact that this scene is present only in the anime does not change, it is always success. Super Buu managed to open a dimensional gate through a scream, after absorbing  both Trunks, Goten, Piccolo and Gohan his powers are increased considerably. I don't think it's a hyperbole, especially when Kid Buu, the weaker version, five million years, has also destroyed a entire galaxy. And to defeated Son Goku and Vegeta merged, for create Vegetto with the powers of both, not added but multiplied each other.

2*10^32 J the energy for destroy the earth

(2*10^32)*(2*10^32)=4*10^64 J

4×10^69 J the energy for destroy the observable universe

Apparently as you can see in the video, in the case that Omega Shenron would win, the minus power would destroy the galaxy in a short time, like the rest of the universe. Moreover both the kaioshin said that the minus power would arrive even their world.

And in another video, Omega has proven to concentrate all the minus energy power in an attack, an attack possibly universal level.

The point  is that this is all just speculation. All that we have seen is Buu opening up a few warps to other universes in a small area. Plenty of fictional characters can do that without causing any particular harm.

Gradually destroying a galaxy star by star is so small compared to the near infinity of the entire universe that it is incomprehensible. Doubling or tripling his power should make no difference.

Similarly, all that we have to go on for Omega Shenron is that a reliable source says that his negative energy might EVENTUALLY spread throughout the universe. So it isn't remotely a one-go instant busted universe, and we certainly haven't seen it proven that his attack would instantly destroy the universe. In fact, his attacks were deflected, small in scale, and caused no harm to anything after Gogeta dealt with them.

So, again, it isn't like I'm completely unreasonable. I'm fine with mentioning Omega Shenron as capable of gradually destroying a universe, but Gohan Buu makes little sense to add as verified. Antvasima (talk) 11:48, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

Maybe, but in general this is the problem, Dragon Ball is very inconsistent and after the Namek saga, we never really saw other feats of a higher level, but the A>B>C and the powerscale logic is necessary to determine more accurately the powers of this characters. If you see from this point of view, Buuhan can technically destroy the universe through chain reaction, Super Buu before could open other dimensional holes, and Kid Buu in the anime had destroyed a galaxy, this seems possible that what Vegetto said is the truth, furthermore this is a work of fiction, use the logic of reality is difficult and not recommended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQZoTuLJQE

Similar situation like Omega Shenron, Goku GT in the Baby saga has destroyed an entire dimension using a simple kamehameha, Sugoro said that the power was exercised when was just concentrating the energy was enough to illuminate an entire galaxy.

4×10^58 J visible mass-energy in the Milky Way

In addition to as kaioshin faced the situation, it seemed that the threat was imminent and that there was no known place from which to escape, not even Other World would be saved against Omega Shenron, let alone the physical universe.

But i think it is obvious that we have two different thoughts, in this case i would try to agree and find a solution that we like it to both.

Well, the power levels could just be linear for all that we know. Meaning that Goku at 450000000 should "only" be able to destroy 25000 Earths, and Broly who was even stronger (1.5 billion if I remember correctly) was destroyed by just being pushed into a star. Also take into account that all of that energy would be dispersed over a practically infinite volume. Meaning: Sun-busting attacks would have almost zero effect dispersed across that kind of area, which is why they destroy stars one by one at vast speed.

As for a compromise, I think that I already did that by keeping the more certain one of the entries. Antvasima (talk) 14:50, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

I don't think we should use the powerlevels are not linear, they are irrelevant and i would prefer to only use quantifiable feats or statements with logical bases.

As for Broly, which destroyed an entire galaxy without becoming the LSSJ, he was killed by Gohan and Goten's kamehameha, the Sun has just finished the work. Furthermore, as i have already said, it is not possible to use the logic of reality and put it at the same level as that of Dragon Ball, this also applies to all works of fiction where there are characters who destroy stars, galaxies and universes, although technically is impossible (for example the statement that the Giga Slave spell goes out of control, would destroy the universe, accepted by all even though we have never seen that the Giga Slave can destroy a planet).

So i want to ask you, why the feats of Dragon Ball should be considered hyperbole just because in reality are not possible, while in all other forms of fiction there are characters who can do and no one complains, even the feats that i mentioned before just very plausible evidence they are not hyperbole?

Well, the thing is that I agree with you that most fiction should be treated as equal, and Dragonball tends to be treated more badly than it deserves by fans of other properties, but it depends on how reliable something is. For example, I kept Omega Shenron because that was the Dai Kaioshin saying it, but he also said that the process would be gradual. Gohan Buu on the other hand only opened up rifts in local space and Goku is pretty dumb in general, so his stressed-out precautious opinion isn't all that important. Antvasima (talk) 17:52, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

Yet, from how they behaved the Kaioshin, the danger seemed very imminent, unlike Kid Buu (This the fist time he was really worried, even with Bills or Kid Buu has never shown this behavior, and regarding Buuhan knew that Vegito was more powerfull), and also the episode showed what would happen if the minus power it would be triggered, like the Giga Slave example (destroy the Earth and within moments corrupted/destroyed the galaxy and the entire universe) and shortly afterwards they said that their world would not survive. And as you can see on this page, the World of the Kaioshin is outside the physical world of Dragon Ball, light years away and in another dimension.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Rip_in_the_Universe

It is true that is never really seen that Buuhan was collapsing the universe, but apart from Mr. Satan, Dende, the Kaioshins and Vegito (not Goku) they stated that the entire universe would be destroyed.

All three characters have the KI sense and is used to determine how powerful an opponent or even in this case, the attacks. So it's logical that they weren't exaggerating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah9KSrwjzbI   9:18

http://media.tested.com/uploads/1/10346/13502-phprkuxjppm_super.jpg

Returning to the speech of the Kaioshin's behavior, I want to point out that after the fist appearance of Black Smoke Shenron said that if it wouldn't have been stopped would destroy the entire universe, and Popo tells thereupon a legend tied to Dragon and recounts that after being awakened has destroyed the planet where was evoked and shortly after did vanish the whole galaxy.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/The_Shadow_Dragons

That's still too loose speculation to qualify Gohan Buu, and destroying a galaxy is extremely far from the same scale as destroying a universe. But I added Omega Shenron according to what was shown in the clips that you linked to. There is no real problem here. Antvasima (talk) 19:26, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

True, but i don't think Akira Toriyama or those who made the anime interesting the logic in the real world or they were experts of astronomy, if Buuhan could collapse the universe in the anime, there is no reason to deny the possibility and if we consider what I've said before, is not inconsistent with the powerscale or there is no real reason or contradictions to deny the facts.

For Omega Shenron just wanted to point out that it can destroy the entire universe in short time, not gradually.

Opening up portals to other universes in local space is not going to convince me I'm afraid. I'm only interested in what's show in the clip, not any speculation about it. Likevise, the clip said that Omega Shenron would gradually destroy the universe/that his negative energy would start with enveloping the Earth and then start to spread from there. Antvasima (talk) 05:37, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Universe Destruction
Talk it out between yourselves and only after you've done Edit again. --Kuopiofi (talk) 15:57, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

We did, and I compromised to a reasonable midway solution, but he doesn't want to anymore despite me asking him to handle it in the Talk. Antvasima (talk) 16:25, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima and Kuopiofi

I admit, i overdid it and maybe i didn't have to continue, but it is difficult that we can find a compromise, we have two different points of view.

In fact i was reminded of a proposal, to leave Buuhan in the Universe Destruction page always but also write that only in the anime filler he perform this feat (leaving the choice to the individual if it true or not).

Or we could decide by popular vote.

I did compromise by keeping Omega Shenron who is much more reliable, and popular vote would likely just lead to lots of Dragonball fans wanting to wank Buu. He really genuinely did not at all reliably show universe-destroying scale by opening up rifts in local space. That's just unwarranted speculation. Antvasima (talk) 16:43, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

For Antvasima

Yet but like Vegetto, Dende, Kibito Kai and Old Kai reacted and they said, is the opposite of what you say.

In the anime filler with japanese dub Dende has tagged compared what happened in the room of spirit and time, Vegetto well clearly says that "If i don't stop him, this universe will be crushed by alternative dimensions!" and the event was just beginning, we don't see each other since then following scenes are focused in an attempt by Vegetto to stop him.

Also in the episode following Kibito Kai declares "If he lets him alone, he could release that power that can even break down the walls between dimensions!"

This feats he did not go either conflict with the DBZ powerscale. If Freezer could destroy 10 times more dense planets of the Earth, if Cell could destroy the entire solar system with a kamehameha and if Kid Buu (always only in the anime) has destroyed a galaxy in 5 million of years, then there is no real reason not to believe that Super Buu, after absorbing Gohan + Trunks + Piccolo + Goten, couldn't be at least a multi galaxy buster.

And you can't use the excuse that "it cannot destroy the universe because it is too large or is a different scale of a planet" because I do not believe that this reasoning may assert in a fiction.

As I said this only happens in the anime, but this feats has on his side the logic and statements that tests that prove its veracity and especially there is nothing that can declare the upside down, no feats or declaration in the anime.

The only thing we can do is consider cannon or not this feat.

Vegetto panicking is not a reliable analysis, and I do not think that Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo, and Goten could make up the difference between slowly destroying a galaxy, and destroying 200 billion galaxies! That is a very valid viewpoint, and not something to be dismissed by "it's fiction". Destroying a whole universe is an enormous big deal and needs conclusive proof, not just an unreliable say-so. In addition, no it is not canon to Toriyama's original manga story, and neither is any galaxy-busting for that matter. Antvasima (talk) 18:57, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Supernatural
If somebody's full fighting power is only capable of destroying large parts of a planet, then thousands of characters on this Wiki would qualify as nigh omnipotent. Barely planetary power is not anywhere near virtually unlimited. Many other characters on the list actually do qualify, so it creates a strange inconsistent list structure. Antvasima (talk) 21:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

(sigh) you'll have to ask the writers about that but the Archangels and soul-imbued Castiel do (did in castiel's case) have near-limitless power, which is the definition of Nigh Omnipotence. Not "how many planets they can destroy". Gabriel himself has proven that the Archangels can achieve virtually anything via Reality Warping, from the very fact they can create entire universes and fantasies proves that. Lucifer also slayed a group of powerful Deities, further displaying the powers of an Archangel. And virtually everyone agreed that Michael was even more powerful than Lucifer, and thus over Raphael and Gabriel. As for the reason why the other Archangels never demonstrated that, again, ask the writers. Probably a plot device so Sam and Dean could defeat Michael, Lucifer and Raphael without them being blown up with ease.

Look under Gabriel's power and abilities section, and with Reality Warping, it says "Gabriel can accomplish just about anything with this power, making him virtually omnipotent". The fact that it can be attributed to Lucifer, who taught him everything he knows, shows how powerful Lucifer and Michael are.

Again, Nigh Omnipotence is about having nigh-limitless powers, it depends on the writer and verse of the scale/radius. Castiel, with the souls of Purgatory, as I said, had ran the universe with his nigh omnipotent powers before he returned the souls.(as he was more powerful than anything except God, Death and possibly Michael and Lucifer) Gabriel456 (talk) 21:53, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Well, if they can create and control universes I suppose that they qualify. It just seemed odd when the Wiki simultaneously claimed that their full unleashed power could only at best destroy a planet, and also that they have nearly unlimited power. Those two terms are logically mutually exclusive. Antvasima (talk) 11:39, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Categories
Unless you have a really good reason, don't go removing them. --Kuopiofi (talk) 16:19, April 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Did that happen again? Sorry. It's some bug in my web browser. I immediately fix it whenever I discover the problem. Antvasima (talk) 05:11, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Omnipotence Users
Take it to each others Talk pages instead of editing/undoing repeatedly and only after you've agreed try again. Seriously, how many times has this been repeated? --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:32, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Is what I said above seriously so hard to understand? Keep it on Talk pages until you have finished --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:05, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

N O
How about returning those '"Only" universal in scale.' users, if you read the Limitations, fist one says: "By definition, user is in some ways limited. This may be inability to affect something, do something in particular or being limited to certain spatio-temporal/dimensional area", which includes Universal scale. --Kuopiofi (talk) 07:32, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you sure? I went by the VsBattles definition of being an at least multiversal level reality warper. Antvasima (talk) 07:38, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * I restored Jafar. The other two were only listed as speculated to have this level of power, and demonstrated planetary level. Antvasima (talk) 08:04, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

The dragon touhou, meta summoning
Actually your wrong about the The Dragon in meta summoning, the dragon can create anything and destroy anything, he is the most powerful being in the entire touhou series, in fact he created Gensokyo and everything in it. his creation power has no limits. this is literally word of god as Zun himself said that there is nothing he can't do.SageM (talk) 06:44, July 25, 2014 (UTC)SageM

It even says on both the touhou wiki and the official touhou work that the dragon appears in that all living things worship him due to capability of creating and destroying anything.

Well, as far as I understood from the Wiki, he has not actually demonstrated his abilities in-series, especially not to the scale of being able to create conceptual cosmic entities at will. Antvasima (talk) 07:18, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Metapotence and DYAD
Hi, I just wanted to interject one thing into this conversation, you said that DYAD isn't an admin and its not his page, well actually if you check out the History of Metapotence you will see that it is DYADs page since he was the one that created the metapotence page in the first place. thats all I have to say, take care!SageM (talk) 04:54, July 26, 2014 (UTC)SageM
 * It doesn't matter if he was the one who originally crafted it. Once it is on the Wiki, it is in the public domain per definition, and all additions have to be be proper and logical. I have invited him to present his arguments and convince me, as that is the proper way to do things, but he has yet to respond. Antvasima (talk) 04:58, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Meta summoning-Gateway
Actually if you read the stories about gateway, thats basically all she does summon. She can literally summon anything, gods, demons, cosmic entitys, anything at all, her title is even "The Summoner" and that she has the highest ranking in summoning ability out of every character in the series, As her name suggests she opens gateways to an infinite number of dimensions from which she can summon anything she wants, and they all will obey her commands. it might not say that much of her powers on the wiki, but thats only a brief description, all her powers are shown in the whateley academy stories.

thats all for nowSageM (talk) 05:00, July 26, 2014 (UTC)SageM

Okay. Then it is fine to add her. Her Wiki profile didn't say this. Antvasima (talk) 05:02, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

If that's the case, her wiki-page could use a bit of updating. --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:22, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Lol. it sure does...Its seems like whoever made her page only added the briefest of details and then decided it was enough. ^^;;;SageM (talk) 05:24, July 26, 2014 (UTC)SageM

Answer
Already send him a note about taking it to Talk, not much else I can do aside of locking the page.

That aside, as someone who made the page, he does have some more authority about what it says, since he's the one who knows what he meant it to be. --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:19, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks. I just want an explanation to why he considers Featherine to be the most powerful omnipotent in all of fiction, despite not being the only one of her kind, and having some shown limitations. Antvasima (talk) 05:56, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Manipulating the boundary Existence/Nonexistence allows the user to summon forth any existence. It may sound theoretical, but that's exactly how Boundary Manipulation works..

Despite all their theoretical power, most omnipotents rarely ever showed any actual feat worthy of their status. When it comes down to it, most of them are just useless shadows hidding behind their title (One Above All, I'm thinking about you). Featherine is no show-off (sign of weakness) and isn't afraid of appearing weak either (sign of weakness). Yet she is stated by Bernkastel (Nigh Omnipotent) to be infinitely above her, and most of all she rewrote on a whim the very script of the visual novel she appears in, exactly like a writer, just by wanting it.

That's the kind of feat that separate Metaoptents from Omnipotents. See this link for the more dogmatical aspects, I don't feel like going over it again. DYBAD (talk) 06:59, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay that makes sense, but I thought that omnipotents usually had to be alone of their kind, and have no limitations. Featherine can get drunk, isn't omniscient/can get memory loss, and there are other unseen creators like her. Doesn't that contradict it? Antvasima (talk) 07:03, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

See the link. DYBAD (talk) 12:38, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Never mind then. You are probably correct. I just want all pages to be accurate. Antvasima (talk) 12:53, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Omnipotence
Keep this in Talk/Discussion/where-ever until you've finished and only after that make changes. --Kuopiofi (talk) 07:29, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Please note what was said above. I don't care how much you've already argued, until it's done don't touch OP. --Kuopiofi (talk) 07:48, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

But he doesn't have any arguments, is not capable of understanding what I say, knows nothing about the property, keeps making ridiculous troll posts, and is only doing this to be completely unreasonable/piss me off. He got instantly banned over at the Marvel wiki for the same type of behaviour. I don't know how to deal with this sort of individual who doesn't listen to reason. Antvasima (talk) 07:59, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

I haven't really followed what he's been doing (I mostly ignore Comments etc.), he's really been that much of a troll? --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:24, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, god, yes. I feel like my brain is bleeding out of my ears from talking with him. He is strictly trying to push my buttons and piss me off, and he was ìnstantly banned by the admins on the Marvel wiki for disruptive idiotic behaviour. Just check out his user profile and contributions over there. Antvasima (talk) 13:07, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

(sigh) Same rule for the both of you, no chancing OP until you've finished. I'm seriously starting to consider locking the page until that happens. --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:05, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well, he seems to just be here to troll me, as what he is sayìng is highly illogical, unreasonable, and using lots of gloating troll slang, but we may have agreed to add Kami Tenchi to ultipotence instead as a compromise. I think that RyanBurns was the one who added him to omnipotence. Antvasima (talk) 05:09, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

I never troll ._. I was banned on marvel because a admin wouldnt accept his defeat and went into insulting me first and so I insulted back I don't care if I was banned a year for being both honest and factual he thinks titles matter? He said oh living tribunal is 2nd to god? So SW Beyonder showed he is above him Beyonder (talk) 10:22, August 8, 2014 (UTC)BeyonderGod

I agree that SW Beyonder was shown as way above the Living Tribunal, and in the recent Infinity Revelation story, it was stated outright that there are several higher-dimensional beings far above him. I apologise if you are in fact not a troll. It is just that you came across as deliberately trying to push my buttons and being unreasonable/not listening, while using typical troll slang. Antvasima (talk) 14:02, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

You Got Banned From VSBattle
VSBattle is a failed version of my creation they use our studied data and info but they are a bias debate wiki and they abuse there powers and insult people when they are wrong and dont or want show proof but on OBD we don't abuse our power we actually work as a community and debate like real battle lovers you think we are bad? OBD is still #1 literally so before you start to dis one own legit wiki remember the quality,experience, and the way the wiki is set up. Beyonder (talk) 10:33, August 8, 2014 (UTC)BeyonderGod

Well, I personally like VsBattles and most of the admins and contributors there, especially RyanBurns. It is just SeiryuShin that seems to have it out for me and others. I just politely disagreed with him, and he instantly banned me for that, while insulting me in troll speak, rather than refute my arguments. Antvasima (talk) 14:00, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

RyanBurns is already invited to my wiki as he has potential and SeiryuShin is a little fan boy+wanker+troll he is truly not a debater and the VSBattle wiki itself is biased. Beyonder (talk) 17:43, August 9, 2014 (UTC)BeyonderGod

Omniscience
Please check out the Youtube video that I first linked to here: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gM6p5DSfoaU They actually were stated to be omniscient. How is that different from Beyonder stating that he is omniscient? It seems like a double standard. It would be nice if you try to be reasonable. Antvasima (talk) 19:22, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously do you know the meaning??? Omniscience means all knowing no one in that show is there nigh look at the wikia look at debate battles they aren't Omniscient there Nigh-Omniscient why? Because if they was then they would have known of Tenchi and his Kami form so stop with the arguments and leave them in nigh Beyonder (talk) 19:39, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

They were stated outright to be omniscient, just like Beyonder, with far less contraďictions to that statement. Also, the Living Tribunal is listed at omniscience, despite stating in "Thanos: The Infinity Revelation" that he does not know what goes on with more higher-dimensional beings than himself. I.e. the exact same case as the Choushin. Both know everything that goes on in lower-dimensional space. That should be enough to qualify. Especially as even beings such as Mimir are listed there. Antvasima (talk) 19:44, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Beyonder shown omniscience the Choushin hasn't shown any knowledge outside there own dimensions so like you said there not true Omniscient beings Beyonder (talk) 19:51, August 12, 2014 (UTC)BeyonderGod

No, Beyonder has STATED himself to be omniscient. He does however not know the results of human experience, events, and so onwards, so there is contradiction there. I think that knowing everything that goes on in 22-dimensional space and the hyperdimension is enough to qualify, much like the LT qualifies, or the Beyonder may qualify. Antvasima (talk) 20:01, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

LT and Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Choushin+Kami Tenchi Dude they are feat less you do know Beyonder is a literal sum of a entire Multiverse? Beyonder (talk) 20:35, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, that's just your own biases and favoritism, not logic talking. The Choushin have far more than 22 dimensions, whereas LT at its most powerful was only stated to have 16, was currently killeď by a megaversal collapse, and a multiverse only has 5-6 dimensions. It is an absolutely irrelevant scale to higher-ďimensional entities. This is true, logical, and science-based. I wish that you would cease being biased and admit that. Antvasima (talk) 04:46, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

You aren't serious because you are a fool 22 dimensions doesn't mean anything and beyonder can't know what humans Feel he chose not to please read the secret wars events and hyperdimesion? They are weak Nigh-Omnipotent beings your statements aren't Factual or canon in any way because Beyonder knew they wouldn't attack him on a bluff so using his omniscience he knew they was gonna attack him when he was serious and when Beyonder gave Doom his powers he "Knew" he couldnt handle it. Beyonder (talk) 20:02, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

22 dimensions mean EVERYTHING to define a scale of infinity. That you cannot understand the concept does not make it any less scientifically irrelevant. And their omniscience is stated outright in the early parts of the Youtube clip above, if you would bother watching it. Why does that not count in your mind whereas Beyonder stating himself to be omniscient does? It doesn't make any logical sense. And I am not a fool. I tested genius level IQ when I was young. Antvasima (talk) 04:46, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

1) He actually.

2) As much as I dislike getting involved to these, I'd like to point this: OS is about knowing all/everything.

Of the Users you're arguing, one knows everything under 22 dimensions (and yes ova counts as well as any other official publishing), other had to be told how to use potty. So either you accept that both have holes in their knowledge and neither has OS or they both have it. --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:09, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

I ain't accepting anything because It point blank stated before those OVA to be Nigh-Omniscient beings and why can't I add. Beyonder then?! If they state it then its biased of this wikia and no Antvasima you are a moronic fanoy boy who wanks off a verse higher beings can own and like he said The Chonsuin doesn't know what's beyond there own creation! Beyonder (talk) 05:18, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

No, they are point blank stated to be omniscient beings in the OVA, but only up to the hyperdimension. And the Beyonder also did not know what is outside of his own creation. That's the entire point of the first Secret Wars. However, if Kuopiofi thinks that both should go, I will do a cleanup for all the beings who do not qualify by the same standards. And about being a fanboy, you are the one naming yourself after the character you are trying to market and who, as other users have mentioned ignore or do not understand all logic without being able to provide solid counters. Antvasima (talk) 05:26, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

So the hell what if I named myself after a guy who literally rapes your favorite character also Dr Solar proved your whole statements wrong you are a moron you got banned from a wikia because you and your bf couldn't be nice to others geez please shut up! Beyonder (talk) 08:07, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

Solar was disproven above, and threatened to kill me. That is not a convincing argument.

As you admitted yourself, SeiryuShin is largely a troll.

As you did not mention, a much more sensible wiki admin that I like, banned you from the Marvel wiki.

Also naming yourself after a character and making unfounded extremely biased statements is only going to make you look foolish.

In addition, like many trolls you have a very unhealthy focus on rape, especially if it is literal. Perhaps you get off on that sort of thing? I certainly don't. Antvasima (talk) 08:12, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

My Point
There's something that I think might define if B really had/has OS, and it completely ignores that thing about whether him wanting to learn the human condition (or whatever it was called) was about him wanting to learn it the hard way or simply didn't know it at all: was he aware about the rest of the multi/omniverse until the point he decided to make himself known with the secret war?

If he knew, then he obviously was, if he didn't, that would say that his OS has limits. That's how I personally see the thing. --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:33, August 14, 2014 (UTC)