Talk:Logic Manipulation/@comment-33216323-20171107071253/@comment-29564364-20171109145300

@SageM «We may be able to observe them, but we don't know for certain whether thats actually the case.» «Until we actually see the object in person, its impossible to be totally accurate.» You remind me of Ken Ham's "Were you there?" argument. By that logic, we can't be certain that air, bacteria and the past exist because we can't see them with our own two eyes, but the thing is we don't need to be able to directly observe them unaided in order to be certain of its existence. If something exists, it has an impact on the physical world which can be observed and measured either directly or using tools that we develop for that purpose.

«Plus all our observations are merely guesses or estimations. Read any science website or magazine that mentions the discovery of new planetary bodies and you will find that ever mention of them has the word guess, estimation or theory mentioned countless times.» Guesses, observations and estimations are not the same thing. An educated guess, or hypothesis in the scientific terminology, is a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation, an attorney observation is the act or process of carefully watching someone or something in order to gain information and an estimate is an approximative calculation or judgment of a value. Of course, we're never going to get values of perfect accuracy. The farthest we've got to is calculating the 2.7 trillionth digit of π and that's still not the end of the it. Heck, it may even have an infinity of digits for all we know, in which case, writing or saying the complete number would take an infinite amount of space, time and resources.

«Thus, we really don't know if its true that logic applies to the rest of the universe since all of our observations are merely guesses and theories until we actually see them in person.» The term "theory" doesn't have the same meaning in a scientific context than in a colloquial context. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. A "mere guess" as you put it, which is the colloquial sense of the word, is called a hypothesis in science. Fun fact: germs being the cause of diseases is also a theory. Are you saying that was also a mere guess?

«I am not saying that it doesn't apply to the rest of the universe, I am saying that we can't be absolutely certain that it does until we actually physically explore and see it with our own two eyes in person.» You beg to difer: "Also, all our various scientific laws and rules only apply to our little corner of the galaxy, everything outside of our solar system and outside of the galaxy does not care for or even follow any of the laws we consider to be unbreakable." And science doesn't dwell in the absolutes either, only in the most reasonably believable based on empirical evidence.