User talk:Morningstar123

Welcome
Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the Divine Slayer page!

Please leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything! Gabriel456 (talk) 18:38, December 10, 2017 (UTC)

Before you try adding humanity to Fallen Physiology, mind checking Applications. --Kuopiofi (talk) 20:44, March 24, 2019 (UTC)

12. No repeated Editing/Undoing of the same thing. If this becomes problem take it to Comments/Talk and talk it out instead of repeatedly messing with the page.

You know by now that adding Satan to Absolute Beauty starts Edit/undoing, so I locked the page again. Talk it over with SageM before next time.

And please don't complain about this to my Talk-page. I honestly don't care either way about whether he belongs to Users or not, just that this mess doesn't start again. --Kuopiofi (talk) 18:18, April 7, 2019 (UTC)

Sorry but you are completely mistaken this time....
I'm afraid this time your blaming me for something I didn't do.

I didn't contact Kuo and I didn't edit Absolute Beauty.

I have absolutely nothing to do with the page being locked.

The last people to edit the page were you and Kuo.

So no, you can't blame me for this happening again. Its all on you this time.

I don't know why Kuo locked the page and I never touched it after the last argument.

If you want your answer, your going to have to ask Kuo about it. Because its not my problem and I didn't do anything.SageM (talk) 23:07, April 9, 2019 (UTC)SageM

The page history even proves I had nothing to do with Absolute Beauty being locked. As there are only two recent editors.

You and Kuo.

So anything that happened to the page is your doing, you can't blame me this time and you have no reason too.

The only contact I have had with Kuo recently is about new power ideas. I never asked once about Absolute Beauty and wasn't even online when the page was edited last.

So anything that happens from this point on about the page is your doing and no other users.

Contact Kuo if you want answers, and don't complain to me about it because I didn't do anything.SageM (talk) 23:20, April 9, 2019 (UTC)SageM

"You know by now that adding Satan to Absolute Beauty starts Edit/undoing, so I locked the page again. Talk it over with SageM before next time.

''And please don't complain about this to my Talk-page. I honestly don't care either way about whether he belongs to Users or not, just that this mess doesn't start again. --Kuopiofi (talk) 18:18, April 7, 2019 (UTC)"''

In other words, please talk it over before you start that mess again. --Kuopiofi (talk) 04:16, April 13, 2019 (UTC)

Sigh
You completely skipped the first part of my last post, didn't you? --Kuopiofi (talk) 04:21, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Oookay, give me real proof "that every being that is considered a god/divine spirit in mythology has absolute condition, via ascended physiology". Source/link and quote, multiple ones if possible. Otherwise it's just your opinion. --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:48, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Please note that I quoted "that every being that is considered a god/divine spirit in mythology has absolute condition, via ascended physiology", that's single individual. One against several thousand doesn't make it rule, it's exception.

And please remember that Absolute Condition on the top of AP is something that he/it has never demonstrated on the screen. 10b. Powers must be demonstrated on screen/in series. Even when it is logical/likely they could do something, don't add them until they show it. --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:53, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Might I point out that those individual are unusual in mythology and known for being examples/on top of those attributes. And even they cover only strength, stamina and fighting abilities. If you can prove that they have the whole Absolute Condition, including speed, intelligence, senses, etc., then you have a case that they actually have that power. Atlas was tricked to going back to supporting the sky pretty easily. --Kuopiofi (talk) 13:55, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Can you show me that deities in mythology/fiction are like that? Because quite frankly you only need to take a look at those and see that they are lacking on the transcendence. If they were, I doubt that myths wouldn't exist as they shows deities as basically people written large, and same can be said about other media.

Basically they really don't show anything like independence of the material universe, and being beyond all known physical laws. They are certainly more powerful and with some extras, especially modern retelling and media, but basically super-beings. --Kuopiofi (talk) 15:15, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

I'm saying that evidence from the mythology really doesn't fit the definition of transcendent beings and asking can you actually show me that deities in mythology are actually shown to be transcendent beings. Because for beings that are above laws of physics they certainly seem to obey causality and distance.

And burning someone to dead can be done simply by being massively powerful, you don't need to be independent of the material universe.

Also, I keep bringing fiction to this because most comics show the gods as far more powerful than mythology, on cosmic level. --Kuopiofi (talk) 17:22, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

To begin with, I'm personally not particularly interested about this at all, certainly far less so than you seem to be. The whole point here is that I'm not particularly impressed about Wikipedia's claim that transcendence includes all deities as, frankly, reading the mythology really doesn't paint them as such. I admit that top gods likely would go there, but what about the lesser deities, Daimons of Greek Mythology for example? Norse deities who can, will and have died and have been mutilated permanently, Izanami died giving birth, etc.?

That said, consider that the rule I already pointed out above: ''10b. Powers must be demonstrated on screen/in series. Even when it is logical/likely they could do something.'' Bearing that in mind, ignore for a moment what Wikipedia says about transcendence and consider the mythical deities. How many of them demonstrate what transcendence implies?

If all of the gods are transcendent, which you equated with Ascended Physiology, that includes Absolute Condition. Can you say with straight face that every single deity has the level of strength, speed, intelligence, senses, wisdom, etc. implied? And I mean every one of the Absolute conditions in there, not just strength, stamina or fighting ability which you've already noted Heracles, Atlas and Ares have, but every one of them possessed by single individual.

Even if you go just by the Wikipedia definition, how many deities have really shown to be truly wholly independent of the material universe, beyond all known physical laws? Consider for example time and space, quite a few myths make them walk and/or have their steeds and use them, even when there's good reason to do otherwise. There's certainly no temporal reversals or ignoring causality. --Kuopiofi (talk) 19:33, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

:
My, aren't we taking this personally.

Athena=Absolute Intelligence, Ares/Hercules/Atlas=Absolute Strength, Hermes=Absolute Speed, Aphrodite=Absolute Beauty. - Should I point out that your examples are basically: this one has absolute (attribute), without any proof that rest their attributes aren't on the same level? Athena doesn't have absolute body, Heracles doesn't have absolute mind, etc. Having one attribute on the Absolute level doesn't translate to all others being there. That said, could you explain me on what you base the idea that transcendent means absolute condition?

fenrir, by extension odin, thor via divine combat, thanatos actually held his own against hercules despite being a daimon - singular attribute again not the whole condition. And Artemis being smarter than human doesn't mean absolute intelligence, just higher level.

Sun Wukong, even before attaining buddhahood or an unbreakable body, was not able to fly. Yet he jumped across the universe and back with ease. He was just an average major god at that period. - actually he smacked around every other deity before Buddha intervened, so I'd put him quite a bit above "average" major god. And I point out that even there you add major. I also need to note that Saitama (One Punch Man) has split the atmosphere beyond horizon with mid-level punch, survived standing on black hole and jumped to Moon and back (just to mention few examples) and he isn't on Absolute powers.

And gods don't have physical forms, as i keep telling you. - number of deities who've been hurt, permanently maimed and killed points to opposite direction.



Putting that aside I'm bit curious about your plans. Let's say that I just go "whatever" and let you to Edit as you like. What would you do? Add Absolute Condition to Transcendent Cambion Physiology and that's it? --Kuopiofi (talk) 04:40, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

For now, yes. It's not like I plan on giving each and every god absolute condition. - So you're planning to remove all users from Transcendent Cambion Physiology? By your own words, only one with Absolute level is Vergil and that's body not condition.

Athena is one of the most powerful major gods. I think she qualifies. - I keep repeating this: '''10b. Powers must be demonstrated on screen/in series. Even when it is logical/likely they could do something.''' She's thrown mountain and island on the myths, that's Supernatural Strength Type III: Being able to lift skyscraper size structures and moving mountains at top strength.

And absolute condition is also called godly condition. - that's just bad logic, because by that line of thinking if I remove it, it isn't anymore.

Now, I'd like to get answer to this question you dodged: That said, could you explain me on what you base the idea that transcendent (as in in the Wikipedia definition) means absolute condition? --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:57, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

/
You really keep bringing comics/manga to this when you complained few posts ago when I did the same thing.

Merlin was the antichrist candidate and asmodeus is an archdemon, so i think they qualify. - Have they shown that level? Or is this once more "because they are transcendent, they have it"? Actually, if they are on that level why haven't you already added them to Users? Or Vergil to Absolute Body? That said, where are you going to move the other Users? Or for that matter, do you have Users for the other transcendent Physiologies?

That is a bad line of thinking. If beerus has never been shown onscreen to destroy a universe but goku has shaken the universe multiple times, will you downplay beerus despite the fact that he has been stated to be stronger than goku? And what of whis, who has never even fought seriously in the anime but is said to be stronger than beerus? - and you nagged about me bringing comic-version of deities to this argument... B has demonstrated ability to smack around G on screen and that means he has to be able to do at least equal feats. If he's obviously stronger, that just means he can do more than G can. Athena hasn't been shown to do bigger things on screen or even hinted doing so.

Like Sun Wukong clearing the universe in one leap before attaining an unbreakable body. - they gave pretty specific distance for that, and while massive it's hardly beyond universe. And he was still on Buddhas hand, so...

pennywise, transcending the physical universe is a universe+ feat. - aand again, as he shown to use that level of physical/mental skills on screen? He also seems to be defeated by normal humans quite easily for something that is able to juggle galaxies if he has absolute strength. --Kuopiofi (talk) 10:55, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

Oh, what ever. This really hasn't been worth the time or effort we've spend on this for either of us. Go ahead, but you're on your own when people start arguing against it.

Please don't claim I approved it, and no Edit/undo mess this time. If it starts for any of the pages, I'll lock them until you and whoever is against it have actually come to agreement.

That said, I'd rather prefer if it was written as "Supernatural Condition or Absolute Condition" to give the widest possible range to the Users. That way you don't even need to remove the current ones, as a the number of those who actually have AC is likely pretty low. Might be a good idea to check Satanic incarnation and transcendent demon physiology while you're at it. --Kuopiofi (talk) 14:00, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

M
" I'd rather prefer if it was written as "Supernatural Condition or Absolute Condition" to give the widest possible range to the Users. That way you don't even need to remove the current ones, as a the number of those who actually have AC is likely pretty low. "-I don't mind doing that. - thanks, that'll make it very unlikely there'll be excessive arguments again the Edits.

"Might be a good idea to check Satanic incarnation and transcendent demon physiology while you're at it."-What are you talking about? - I suspect that most of the higher level powers have Users that really don't belong there, but since you need to know the series/character to be sure and I don't really follow that many comics/cartoons and especially movies, well... it'd be guessing or trying to figure which story line is canon right now. --Kuopiofi (talk) 14:31, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

Just a little note about how powers are ordered: if they are of similar level they are in alphabetical order (element/energy for example). If they are levels of similar power, they go from least to highest level (Peak Human Condition/Enhanced Condition/Supernatural Condition/Absolute Condition for example) --Kuopiofi (talk) 21:10, April 30, 2019 (UTC)

Because just talking it out is so much a chore? --Kuopiofi (talk) 20:06, May 13, 2019 (UTC)

Funny how often both sides think that way. --Kuopiofi (talk) 13:30, May 14, 2019 (UTC)

How about i make the changes THEN you lock the page? - so everyone will come to complain to my talk-page about doing that?

But just so that you know the page is locked so i can't directly edit it. - uh... what pages those were? There's so much going on that I forgot. --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:57, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Done. Please do try to keep this on Talk/Comments instead of becoming Edit/undo mess. --Kuopiofi (talk) 17:55, June 13, 2019 (UTC)

"and was also either conflated with Satan or considered Satan's father OR seducer."

These are your word not mne, Rex Mundi is one of those things. If I don't own the religion, you don't too. We only take things on the wikia which have absolute certainety and honestly, what is even the point of adding him? Rex Mundi is on the page, if you believe he is satan then fine, why do you even need to add Satan on every page?Nekron2 (talk) 18:35, June 13, 2019 (UTC)

While it isn't my problem, but as this "This is the proof that says satan and RM may have been the same entity OR his father" was above my post I thought to add my opinion to this. As it does basis of fact, how about adding both Lucifer/RM to Users while keeping them separate with a note descripting their relationship? --Kuopiofi (talk) 20:15, June 13, 2019 (UTC)

Rude words and bad words are not allowed, try to be more kind, do not fight like animals.User talk:Arquetion

Omnilock "Don't even try this shit. I've already discussed this with kuo. The entire outer god race LIVE in the outervoid. Also the GOO "are completely undimensioned"." - Yes we talked about this, I also asked about GOO and outer gods and this "There are a couple of outer gods who are also ‘out of commission’, like ubbo-sathla, and he/it is still considered to have the same powers and ‘occupy the same level of existence’ as the other outer gods. - so not even all of outer gods count for Omnilock? No word about GOO?" was the last thing about them, I didn't get answer to either.

Please don't claim you have my backing when I haven't agreed with you. Fancy that you removed that part before editing OL... coincidence? --Kuopiofi (talk) 05:00, June 14, 2019 (UTC)

The one above is last thing posted about OG/GOO, I didn't get any answer which meant exactly same to me. --Kuopiofi (talk) 04:25, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

BTW, before you go all "read wikipedia" over phoenix, I have done that and I have to point out that symbol =/= embodiment. It's close tho, which is why they are in Variations.

Well, that and which part is emphasized seems to vary a bit on which mythology you go with. Firebirds seem to basically birds of fire without much more. --Kuopiofi (talk) 10:23, June 15, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for reminder, its open. --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:13, June 19, 2019 (UTC)

check the actual pages for the beings themselves.
Instead of just going by a single page with possibly contradictory information such as the link you provided. I did an actual search for the deities themselves on wikipedia, which has far more information available instead of simply saying yes they count.

I did a far more complete search before I removed them, as I checked their actual entries on wikipedia.

Please stop saying I don't know what I am talking about, since the actual pages for the deities/entities provides a greater source of information that you apparently just ignored.

Next time check the actual pages for the beings instead of just going by one single page. As most of whats listed there is incorrect.

for example, Anzu is not a demon or a god. Its a divine beast, and it clearly says so on the actual page for it.

I'm sorry if you don't agree, but thats what the actual page says in black and white.SageM (talk) 22:00, June 19, 2019 (UTC)SageM

I left the users that can potentially be confirmed as divine demons. But the others do not fit according to their pages on wikipedia or are considered something totally different from divine demons. Such as- Anzu, Leshy and Culsu (who are a divine beast, faerie/forest spirit, and normal underworld demon respectively).

If you actually bother to check their wikipedia pages, you will see that you have clearly made a mistake in adding them.SageM (talk) 22:09, June 19, 2019 (UTC)SageM

Check out this site-

[//www.demonthings.com/what-is-an-ancient-egyptian-demon/ http://www.demonthings.com/what-is-an-ancient-egyptian-demon/]

Please read everything, including the comments.SageM (talk) 23:32, June 19, 2019 (UTC)SageM

Maybe your right and maybe your wrong.

I am not saying every user you added doesn't fit, as some of them definitely do (which is why I didn't remove all of them).

I am simply saying that the information is contradictory for some of them, as you say they are both gods and demons. while other sources of information claim otherwise.

Also I checked a few other sites about Anzu and it only says he was a divine beast, so the information about him being a demon may have been a typo on wikipedia. I think what they meant to say is that he was a demon in the same context that some people call others a monster or beast.

Rather then trying to argue about it further, lets try to find concrete and irrefutable proof that they have always been considered to be both. Yes the sources of information are useful and they say a lot of things.

But its better to get a source of info that neither one of us can deny or refute. Since most of the sites say one thing and then say the exact opposite in the same page.

Can you at least accept that much before we start adding new users?SageM (talk) 00:01, June 20, 2019 (UTC)SageM

Something important you should know for future reference....
Nothing against your arguments here, but I think you should know that this page that you used as your source-

[//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theological_demons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theological_demons]

Is actually the single most vandalized page on wikipedia, so you may want to reconsider using it as a source of info for future reference.

The admins have had to protect the page more times then can be counted. And they even argued that many of the entries on there don't actually belong.

I am not using this as an argument for Divine-Demonic Physiology users. I am saying this because not all the info on that page may be accurate for other pages on the Superpower wikia.

If you read the talk page section of the entry and the page history section, you can see how many times they have had to remove the vandalism done to the page.SageM (talk) 01:32, June 20, 2019 (UTC)SageM

isn't it considered more of a Creator Deity?
Isn't the Demiurge considered to be more of a user of Creator Deity Physiology?

Since based on most interpretations of Gnosticism its described as an entity who created the material world due to its lack of knowledge of the supreme power and the higher levels of reality.

And while its actions may seem to be malevolent and evil to the general concept of Gnosticism, its not what we would consider to be a truly demonic force or being. But more of a misguided child who doesn't understand the true nature of the world and its place in it.

This comprehensive page- [//gnosis.org/library/valentinus/Demiurge.htm http://gnosis.org/library/valentinus/Demiurge.htm]

Seems to imply that the Demiurge is separate entity from either the God or the Devil, and that it falls in the middle between the two opposing powers/forces (sort of like the In-Betweener in Marvel Comics).

I could be wrong, but most of the details on this and other searches, seem to consider the Demiurge to be more of creative force (if misguided and imperfect) rather then one that is destructive, corruptive, or demonic.

Its impulses might be considered evil, but i don't believe that's the same as whats defined in Divine-Demonic's capabilities....SageM (talk) 18:16, June 20, 2019 (UTC)SageM

Zeno does have extreme control over his power to the extent that when he erased a universe all those who fled their universes were erased too, so when he erases, it is extremely precise which is why he didn't erase himself but only the multiverse which was annoying him. Well, he actually erased an Absolute Immortal which is why he is listed as a user of Nonexistence. All the other users have never done that and Nonexistence is one of the few powers that can actually erase an Absolute Immortal. Simple erasure like that of Beerus couldn't have killed Zamasu.

As for bringing back erased universes, there is a "thoroughness" factor of Nonexistence which means restoration is possible depending on how thorough the erasure was, which is what happened to zeno, he was very casual about erasure of universes which is why we say that his erasure was just not thorough enough allowing restoration and if he wanted he could have erased them for good. Also, it was stated that zeno foresaw the outcome of the battle, so he may have purposefully made his erasure less thorough to allow restoration. This is further proven by the fact that absolute immortality from super dragon balls couldn't save Zamasu, so if he wanted he could have erased the universes for good but purposefully decided not to.

About, Behemoth,...., well, it is not a demon either. It is a beast- an animal if you may say a mixture of hippo and elephant by some accounts. It along with Ziz and Leviathan were beasts created to demonstrate the power of God and only God can slay or capture them and no one else can not even satan or the strongest angels.Nekron2 (talk) 12:13, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

Fetherine is metapotent which is basically, omnipotence, so she could survive Nonexistence (as the only things that can survive Nonexistence are Omnipotence, Metapotence and Author Authority) but Zeno definitely surpasses the hadou Gods and the like where it really counts.

Well, it seems that Behemoth is really a demon, then in that case, Leviathan needs to be added to the page to. Also, why are you adding them on fallen angel physiology? They were never angels that I am sure of. Add them to Transcendent Demon Physiology not on Transcendent Fallen angel physiology.Nekron2 (talk) 12:33, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

So, in the new interpretations, are Behemoth and Leviathan still considered to be beings without weakness whom not even the satan, lucifer or the strongest angels could slay or capture and whom only God's Omnipotent power can slay and capture? Or is that no longer the case?

Because depending on that we may need to remove him from Flawless Indestructibility.Nekron2 (talk) 10:20, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

well, doomsday isn't truly invincible, entropy has already killed him, he is one of those users who will soon be removed from FI page. A user of Flawless indestructibility doesn't need raw power as they cannot be defeated by any means. My question is can Satan or Metatron if they used their full power even lay a scratch on behemoth? Nekron2 (talk) 12:53, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

"-They cannot be defeated true, but neither can they just go around defeating people. Let me give you a scenario: a guy has only FI, and his friend has nigh omnipotence (or something). His friend can't harm him due to his lack of weaknesses, but he does not have any other powers that would allow him to defeat this friend of his, who, using his NO powers, can still imprison him and such. So yeah, no point in being indestructible if you will technically still be powerless. Also limitations states that they can be overpowered by a superior force. Unless you need to edit that too."

Flawless Indestructibilty was turned back into an Omnipotent power 7 days ago and thus, the known users list is being thoroughly re-formatted. This is not the first power on site that is going through these changes. Powers like FI, Nonexistence, Author Authority, ultimate Invincibility were downplayed by new comers and on the month of may of this year, it was decided that these powers go back to their original status starting with Nonexistence.

So, it is not for my benifit really as this is what was decided. Also, if you happen to read the full limitations of FI, it states that the "superior force" means a truly Omnipotent being and nothing less. A nigh-Omnipotent no matter how powerful cannot affect an FI in any way as even Meta Power Immunity is merely a sub-power of it.The only way you can imprison an FI is not through using powers like Binding,etc as the FI is not only immune to all powers but also have Anti-Storage (which protects them from getting captured) but by creating a place with Absolute Storage and then putting the FI there, which is what the limitations state if you click the link on "imprisoned".

So, if satan can control Behemoth, then he has to be removed as no matter what Satan's status or Raw power is, he shouldn't be able to affect an FI as he isn't a truly omnipotent being. FI isn't merely not getting harmed, that is absolute invulnerability, FI is to have no weaknesses, be it internal, external, MENTAL, Spiritual,etc. Being controlled by someone due to their status counts as a mental weakness. So, he isnt really a user.Nekron2 (talk) 14:05, July 28, 2019 (UTC)