Talk:Almighty Science/@comment-25716369-20180224003051/@comment-27775853-20180224231310

To Vlad: "logic manipulation and metapotence, unlike with almighty magic, is not listed as an aplication of this power." That doesn't matter when those two are listed under the applications of other applications of this power, such as Indeterminacy (which, by the way, certainly deserves to be listed in the applications of this power).

"sure, you MAKE the rules, and you can bend them, but you still needs to follow a pattern." What kind of pattern would they follow when they can literally make up their own pattern? They wouldn't need to follow anything at that point as it's what they would want to do.

"'''but at every given moment, you need to be in a setting of rules.

you make those rules, but you can't be without them.'''" Actually, you can. Especially if all you need to do is alter the existence of yourself to whatever you desire, such as making yourself not bound to such rules and much more. If you're talking about the setting, as in the story itself, then at that point even Almighty Magic users are affected because they are a part of the story, if that's the logic you were going for.

"'''it's more about what you want.

if you want, it would happened.'''" And wouldn't Almighty Science be able to do the same? We're talking about conceptual, abstract powers that are so absurd that it can make logic weep in the corner. If one can do it because logic can be manipulated by them, so can the other. If we're talking about semantics here, then we can go on and on and still have no progress.

Science: "The power to make the impossible possible". Magic: "Where everything is possible". Doesn't that sound identical to you, at it's fundamental level?

"Magic's just science that we don't understand yet" - Arthur C. Clarke You see, science is just a human-made concept. It is the systematic study of the structure and behavior of a system, through observation and experiment. Magic is what we call those phenomenons when we don't yet understand them, but once we do, it wouldn't be considered "magic" anymore, but what we call "science".

You see, if you look at the two of them at their cores, they're fundamentally the same. One could comprehend something that has happened, and the other couldn't comprehend something that has happened. One seems to understand how their powers operate and achieve results, the other seems to not understand the mechanics of their power but still achieve the same results (but that doesn't actually means that it's superior). They are all just what we perceive it to be.

If you look at it like that, they aren't so different as you made it out to be.

"almighty science is still a form of science manipulation, and is bound to logic." No, it does not. And I've already elaborated on why it is so.

"he could alter logic, and break it's rules, but he first need to actually change it to a new set of logical rules so he can do anything." Then by that logic, even Almighty Magic users are bound to it. Because they are required to perform specific actions to achieve an effect, such as desiring something to happen. You stated that one is superior to the other, when in reality, none of them are superior to the other, as they are one and the same.

Magic and Science are just two sides of the same coin (some series in fiction depicted them to be something completely different but that's their setting and their verse), One is about knowledge about phenomenons, and the other is the lack of knowledge of those phenomenons. The things that we perceive, but not understood, we call it magic. The things we perceive, but understood, we call it science.

The laws that we humans made for the world is just that, made-up rules in an attempt to comprehend the world we're in. What we view "science" as is subjective, just like how "logic" can be subjective to us (and logic is also a human-made construct).