Talk:Ultipotence/@comment-4370030-20160621060905/@comment-4867780-20160621095426

Didn't the Phoenix Force get its metaphorical ass handed times and again in multiple ways during Marvel's rich history ? Among other things, I distinctly remember Pre-Retcon Beyonder literally bitch-slapping into submission Rachell Summers in full-on Phoenix Force mode. Even its strongest version, the White Phoenix of the Crown, was consistently evaluated as not standing a chance against him. So while Pre-Retcon Beyonder clearly qualifies ("millions of times stronger than the entire Marvel Multiverse combined" is a narrator quote), the Phoenix Force just as clearly doesn't (extremely powerful but obviously not quite "ultimate").