Talk:Ultipotence/@comment-4370030-20160621060905/@comment-4370030-20160622021516

Sage, I'm afraid what you provided isn't enough. That post contains the same flawed logic as your other ones. For one, I don't even think we got to see an interaction between the Beyonders and the Phoenix, so you don't know for sure if they fought or not.

And I don't even need to bring up how many times the Phoenix has been retconned; even you can't decide whether she's a universal or multiversal power. That doesn't really help your argument.

One thing that needs to be pointed out here is that you're struggling to make a sufficient argument for why the Phoenix is even as powerful as Living Tribunal, a claim we have no reason to believe based on the history and feats of both characters. If you can't even prove that, then how are you supposed to prove her Ultipotence? PR Beyonder was stated to be millions of times more powerful the Marvel Multiverse combined. Even though that technically puts a limit on his powers, it makes it a lot easier to claim him as a user of this power than the Phoenix.

And Claremont and the Marvel handbook can say anything they want. Their words do have weight in this discussion. Point is, Phoenix has never been shown to have infinite power. Phoenix has never done anything to indicate that it has infinite power. Thus, there is no reason to include White Phoenix in the list of users.