Are y’all arguing?

No, I'm actually very happy, this has been the most exciting post for the past week, I'm learning a lot and get the chance to have a real debate. And now finally it seems the real work is happening, can't wait for what's going to happen.

@DHZ3 How the fuck did I interpret you listing Antispiral's hax as ""He's easily killable"? I'll tell you, since you helped me explaining what Antispiral can do, it's only fair that I do that in return.

So to recap and connect the dots for you, we go to this sentence

You said, "Since it can be amped to an infinite extent and is the force that binds the entire universe." Therefore it's only logical to compare the spiral power with the chaos force, since you presented that how Simon used the spiral power to permanently kill Antispiral.

First before we go into the key issue of what you not understanding why I brought up the chaos emeralds, I want to state from that sentence, you said the spiralpower binded the entire universe, so did the chaos force

Does that not make them both the same in nature when dealing with Antispiral?

With the chaos emeralds, to compare simon's infinite power with Enerjak's, well, like I said, each chaos emerald is infinite

Stated by Enerjak himself, if you didn't know, Enerjak has avatars, this one was the first avatar that Enerjak possessed, known as Dimitri, and how Dimitri became Enerjak was through exposure to the chaos emeralds, and it's must also be known that he says "The energies of eleven shattered chaos emeralds howl within me", remember that.

One more source

He describes himself as "A living chaos emerald" showing he would too have limitless power. But yes, I was suppose to say, Enerjak, or just Dimitri as an avatar, has the power of multiple chaos emeralds, meaning many levels of infinity on top of each other. But I should move onto new information, each avatar how they become Enerjak is due to chaos emerald exposure, and Knuckles was changed due to Master Emerald having a hex

The Master Emerald is about twelve chaos emeralds worth

And look at what Dr. Finitevus says, "Knuckles... You've had this power before, remember? But Dimitri told me how you couldn't control it." He was refering to when Knuckles was Chaos Knuckles, which Chaos Knuckles was also compared to Enerjak

And Chaos Knuckles too was a Living Chaos Emerald

Oh, and I found more comparisons

And described to be the embodiment of chaos energy. And if you want Enerjak saying it without mentioning a chaos emerald that his power is infinite

Anything Chaos Knuckles or a Chaos Emerald can do, Enerjak can too.

And in this section, I want to extend the Super Sonic feat, usually Super Sonic is transformed from this requirement

It's, seven chaos emeralds worth, but since in the fight between Super Sonic vs Enerjak, Super Sonic used the power of the Master Emerald

And remember what I mentioned about the Master Emerlad, it's twelfth infinities worth of power, and Enerjak was able to put a fight, and stated by the creator and even in a dark future that Enerjak is capable of killing Super Sonic who was invulnerable

And I show what I mean why this is one of the great feats

And like I said, Super Sonic was invulnerable and yet the creator said Enerjak would've atomized him if not for Knuckles' consciousness.

So that shows Enerjak is multiple levels of infinity, and if Simon with power of infinity somehow negate regeneration, so can Enerjak with a similar force, unless you haven't explained why spiralpower exactly has the means to kill Antispiral.

Now with the probability, what I just said above now should prove why Enerjak has the power over probability, because he was capable of beating such a foe that involves fate, also to understand Sonic's fate hax as better explained in this image

And second, look at what eggman says

"Exposed to more chaos energy", well, isn't both Chaos Knuckles and Enerjak proof of being exposured to chaos energy, shouldn't they also have similar nature to Sonic, if not more, also he calls Sonic, "The Embodiment of Chaos", who also was called an Embodiment of Chaos?

That is the nature of chaos, and Enerjak of all should have more than Sonic, since Sonic isn't a God of Chaos, Enerjak is one with chaos like Aurora

So Enerjak probably has stronger probability than Sonic naturally until Sonic used the Master Emerald in his super state to match his.

With your 4th section, like above again Enerjak has shown to deal with invulnerability, and you seem to not understand that hax can counter other hax.

With the JJK thing, I'm sorry about that, you can ignore it, that was for me, it's a lame thing, but it was suppose to be a example to compare, where the certain hit properties of domains with the tactics of how the main characters use their anti-probability missles, the fact this is how the conflict both sides use probability to make sure their probability of their attacks land.

And finally, your last statement, negating regeneration will mean nothing, when you realize Enerjak uses avatars, when he truly is beyond death, since Enerjak is comparable to Aurora, he couldn't even be destroyed

Remember, he's part of chaos, he's not going to be physically there, and in all of his fights, he wasn't beaten physically unlike Antispiral, there were factors and had to be outsmarted. And since Chaos Knuckles and Enerjak are comparable, when Chaos Knuckles died, he became part of chaos

And since Chaos Knuckles is able to revive himself when in this situation

So how do you beat someone who can't die and keep reviving, when their true self is from somewhere else. Since Enerjak is not only comparable to Chaos Knuckles, but Aurora too, so if anything, he is not in the mortal plane, but where is chaos at.

Also if you going to say outstatting, then send me to a page about cosmology, the least you can do is guide me to the specific parts I'm suppose to read where you get that from, is it the galaxy(/universe) grabbing thing? What exactly about it other than stating how big the cosmology is, suppose to show Antispiral is physically stronger? Which I like to remind you, Enerjak was never beaten physically, he was beaten by other means.

And when you say Mid-Godly Regen, is that a verse specific term, or we talking about vs battle wiki terms?

And why bring up the Ashtanga Fleet when we talking about the Antispiral, wasn't I asking particularly about Antispiral, did I actually ask something that was irrelevant about Antispiral? If so, what was the context why the Ashtanga Fleet was important about this attack that Simon did, which connects to Antispiral?

@Neosaiyan7 I can't address everything here right now but i'll summarize a couple of things.

First of all, I want to admit that this discussion dragging out longer then it should be is mostly my fault because I haven't made specific enough responses. For the cosmology blog, skip down to how spatial dimensions work in TTGL.

Regarding the fate stuff, what I meant before is that Antispiral's probability hax still worked on Team Dai-Gurren post-multiverse labyrinth absorption despite the fact that they had strong acausality at that time. In fact, they were specifically described (by the novelization) as breaking through causality and fate. Yet they were still affected by Antispiral's probability and didn't fully resist it until after evolving from the TTGL to the STTGL (or at least around that time). It seems like you're arguing that chaos energy gives you fate manip resistances based on the fact that Enerjak>Sonic, my response is that AS's probability manip is likely layered or at least stronger than usual because of the reasoning above, so you need to prove that he can resist it to that extent too.

Yes I do mean the vsbw definition of Mid-Godly Regen.

I never denied that he did, they both have Invulnerability and Negation of it, I was just addressing your claim that AS never had invulnerability to begin with.

I don't have a counter to the avatars thing, AS has abstract existence due to being an amalgamation of the anti-spiral races' thoughts and information. Similarly AS's true body resides in the anti-spiral universe and the first start things off by sending something else down to Earth to eradicate any evolving species, but those aren't relevant anyways since they don't scale to AS itself.

About the chaos emeralds, idk how much this stacks up but both AS and Simon also go beyond "standard infinite power" as they still grow stronger after Simon absorbs the multiverse, this applies to their speed as well which is already Immeasurable.

You need to show proof that Enerjak can negate regen on that level because "infinite power" is a broad term across fiction in general, they both have it but they are fundamentally still different verses that show different capabilities of what they're infinite power can actually do. Here's some examples of what spiral power can do.

Finally, I haven't watched the episode in a long time so I don't remember the reason on why they used that attack against the Ashtanga Fleet, but they were capable of moving along the time axis just like AS so it was definitely important too.

Hopefully I made myself clear now.

@DHZ3 I'll do the rest of what you said, but until I do some research, there is something I wanted to say, and since you confirmed it, there is something wrong. You state that Antispiral has Mid-Godly Regen

And you got that from the vs battle wiki

However, the vs battle wiki profile states differently, and I know where you got that from, since the vs battle wiki states Antispiral regeneration

Which contradicts what you said, but I bet you got that from this

From the page created by Remus

And why is Remus' word reliable? when compared to many other pages that others also made in the fandom

When even one states the same thing as vs battle wiki

And by definition of what we are according to vs battle wiki with types of regeneration, both low-godly and mid-godly

To me it sounds like Antispiral would be Low-Godly, since I'm not aware of the attack that the Antispiral regenerated from was also going to harm his mind and/or soul, it seemed to be a fully physical attack, unless you can proof it was also a mental attack.

And if Antispiral is low-godly, according to vs battle wiki, Enerjak has the same kind of regeneration, and the matching regeneration negation to harm Antispiral

And on that note, what sources of Enerjak am I suppose to rely on too then

They are all got different opinions, so what is yours? What do you think is the true regeneration of antispiral then?

And remind me, what was the type of regeneration negation that Antispiral has, since you said he had stronger regeneration negation.

@Neosaiyan7 I think Remus listed it as Mid-Godly because it falls under CSAP's Regen definitions but not VSBW's (They are different).

I chose Remus's profile because all of the others are either not complete or don't have the scans to back up their claims anyways. Out of all of the profiles i've seen Remus has the most updated and best-formatted in comparison to even AS's official vsbw page.

From what i've seen though Remus also has the best Enerjak profile on CSAP but I haven't checked all of the other ones.

TLDR: Anti-Spiral's regen negation is Low-Godly on VSBW but Mid-Godly on CSAP (And this is only cause regen types differently)

I guess I do the spiral power similarity part for now

Chaos Knuckles was able to grow more powerful throughout time

Also Feist, a chaos user, was able to use the chaos emeralds to reshape an infinite universe that affected the universe outside of it

And yet here's what I don't understand, how can Antispiral resist Chaos Control, a thing that was able to affect everything

Which we are referring to now as (super) genesis wave

As seen above, only 1 chaos emerald was enough to warp reality, but with all seven, they have no limits to erasing and even more than reality, and in post-super genesis wave, cosmology and characters from previous run no longer exist, completely nerfed

Also the Master Emerald was able to affect infinite universes, if I didn't already say

I'll find more to answer your other questions, but @DHZ3 I must admit that fate breaking thing

Very clever, you're slowly convincing me, maybe a winning advantage.

I give up, I can't do it, Antispiral wins, I can't gather the specific evidence to counterargue, good job, it was a good debate, indeed it was.

Great job you 2

Thanks