Logic Manipulation

@AzQth What can you do with Logic Manipulation starting from Beginner level to Selective Omnipotence?

Imagine if someone was born with a godlike ability, be it reality warping, mentifery, an absolute power etc, that blurs the boundary between reality and their mind, now imagine the person shortly after their born, their abilities were uncontrolled and happened randomly. Imagine what their life would be like, I think most likely it would be eternal but just imagine a being that barely knows about the world, its laws, concepts, principles, abstracts etc. imagine what that reality would be like and how would they grow up in it. I’m picturing a surreal, dream like reality, a reality where nothing much exists or that their entire life would feel like a dream.

@Necropolis00 @AzQth @Idolsama @Theblackestgod @Fallen221 @TheDevil7777 @Abdalla1234 @Unfortunatejoe2018 @Heartz13 @Keefdreewill @Neosaiyan7 @Sodium Nitrate Phosphorus @Atomicola48 @GoldenPizza17 @MarcosV2019 @Heartless Frost and anyone else.

Please tell, I am curious and want to know

Is there anything that is truly beyond/above logic? Like in literall sense I mean yes Absolute powers are essentially "beyond" logic but aren't they still bound to their conceptualizations.

If they are truly beyond logic they should be unconstraint by logic. Like for an example absolute strength certainly is extremely powerful, as you have boundless/limitless/unquantifiable levels of physical strength that there is literally nothing for you that you cannot lift/overpower/pushing/destroying with your brute strength.

But if Absolute strength is truly beyond logic they should be distinguished from their definitions. And it's shouldn't be able to be define it by logic and yet they are defined by this wiki.

(Excluding true Omnipotence, this question just came out of my mind so don't take it seriously)

Me gustaria que pudieran brindar ejemplos de cosas absurdas que se pueden hacer con la manipulacion de la logica y su variante desafio de la logica

1.Reality warper

Friend:Which I was in the marvel comics

Warper:(scene changes to new York)Here we are in the marvel comics

Friend:How?

warper:just made it real.

Friend:you can't just turn a fictional universe into reality.

Warper: Reality is whatever I make it.

2.Freedom

User:I am going to the moon, wanna come?

Friend:sure,take me to the moon.

User:(grabs him and walk through the door)here we are

Friend:How is this possible?How are we even breathing?

User:I am free to do anything I want so I took us to the moon and made us free from needing to breathe.

Friend: that's impossible, reality has rules everything has to follow,you can't just go to the moon because you want to.

User:I told you I am free to do anything

3.logic manipulation

User: Have you ever eaten the moon?

Friend:No one can eat the moon.

User:(plucks the moon from the sky and gives him a miniature version of it)Here taste it ?

Friend:(shocked expression)How did you do that

User:(shrugs shoulder)so you don't want it?

Friend:but how?

User:cuts the moon in half and eats half of it)I felt like eating the moon.

(What do you think about this dialogue should I post more)

I'll get right to the point: I feel like, in a wiki full of powers that can simply shrug off logic and do impossible things, we need to make a distinction between the logic we use when debating about powers and the logic that powers operate off of and, in many cases (e.g absolute powers), go completely beyond.

If we don't, then we get conclusions such as Logic Manipulation or Defiance being above absolute because any time you try to argue "well, absolute powers transcend logic completely and have no limits, so they're completely beyond such things", that can be countered with "the only reason you can say absolutes are beyond a logic manipulator is by applying logic, but logic doesn't apply to the logic manipulator, so they can be beyond absolute".

You can see how this can cause issues. This one is particularly bad because it is literally impossible to argue with anyone who takes this view of logic manipulation/defiance, because any argument you make can be shot down with 'your argument relies on logic, so it doesn't apply'.

This is why I think we should create a distinction between the logic we as readers/writers/etc use to debate about powers and their wielders and the in-universe logic that powers like Logic Manipulation and Logic Defiance actually relate to.

So my own thoughts on this distinction are that in-universe logic forms the structure and foundations of the omniverse. Different multiverses/universes may operate off of less or different logic, but all exist within an overarching logical structure. This is also the structure from which most laws/rules are derived (as in, physical laws, supernatural laws, etc), and where normal concepts can exist. Logic Manipulation/Defiance controls or defies this logical structure to do the impossible within the omniverse.

Beyond the omniverse, however, is where meta-concepts exist, being completely transcendent of logic, where the insane, illogical and impossible are mundane. The only things giving structure at this point are Almighty Laws, which are similarly beyond logic. On the level of Almighty Laws are other Absolutes, which are also utterly beyond logic. On these levels, a Logic Manipulator or a being capable of ignoring logic are not so different to normal people, as the logical structure that they control or defy has no bearing anyway.

Then there's the logic we use as readers/writers/etc. It is exactly what it seems like. It is the kind of logic that I used to make the above statements. It applies to everything, as it is beyond the verse in which in-universe logic, and everything beyond it, exists. This is the kind of logic that we use to actually debate things, including things like Logic Manipulation.

Now, this thought was triggered by a post @Superplay01 made(so credits to you) and it makes me wonder how far does this extend? Is it Superior to Logic Manipulation?

So I visited the logic manipulation page not too long ago and saw that it was reworked and given some new limitations and Existence manipulation was...well the last time I checked it in comparison to now I think it has been Upgraded and its more powerful than it was before.

The capabilities stated that it can manipulate all things that exist both natural and supernatural alike and can also freely bring certain things into existence, to what extent does it apply? perhaps it manipulates things in the dream world? since they "exist" inside the dream realm, or even manipulate the existence of things inside imaginations? or one may call this Meta-Existence Manipulation/Absolute Existence manipulation rather than EM.

How Is it superior to Logic manipulation(even tho I agree it is But I need other perspectives)?