Meta-Concept Manipulation

So I've been thinking about Conceptual Lordship a lot recently, and I have some things I'd like to discuss and get other people's opinions on.

First off, does Conceptual Lordship, as well as Concept and Meta-Concept Manipulation, assume concepts like in Plato's 'Theory of Forms', in which concepts are independent, abstract, perfect and immutable existences that shape reality by way of all aspects of reality 'participating' in them (e.g., a red circle participates in the concepts of 'circle-ness' and 'red-ness', and altering either concept would change the red circle accordingly) or being imperfect reflections of them, and changing the concepts would fundamentally alter all participating aspects of reality. Or can it include abstract ideas partially or entirely formed by human (or other sapient) conceptualisation?

• For concepts in the sense of 'platonic forms', does this imply that concepts exist on a level of reality above baseline reality, but potentially below others? Or would they necessarily be beyond 'levels of reality' due to that very thing being a concept in and of itself? For that matter, what happens when you have concepts of things that are beyond conceptualisation (e.g., the concept of Absolute Transcendence)?

• If they do include concepts in the sense of abstract ideas in the human mind, what does manipulation of these concepts actually do? Concepts in this sense could probably be thought of as collections of abstract ideas created to encompass and represent an aspect of reality on a level abstracted from the actual nature of the aspect in order to make it easier to comprehend. On a base level, it seems like it would just be changing how humans conceive of the represented aspects of reality. So would these powers involve then forcing reality to reflect the alterations to the changed concept? Or does altering even a concept of this kind with one of these powers inherently involve altering everything the concept encompasses, even if the concept isn't the basis of everything it encompasses in the same way that a Platonic Form is?

I think that the idea of manifesting and infusing concepts is easier to consider, regardless of the specific nature of the concepts being used.

• For Platonic Form type concepts, infusing a concept into something would entail making the thing participate to a high degree in that form. Manifesting a concept would entail creating an imperfect reflection of the form (or, in the case of Conceptual Lordship, this could be creating a perfect reflection of the form) to have an affect on reality.

• For concepts as from the human mind, infusing a concept into something would be making the thing reflect attributes associated with the infused concept. Manifesting a concept would be creating something that matches the collective ideas of the manifested concept to a high degree.

• In both cases, the thing being infused with the concept is made to better reflect the ideal set out by the concept in question and the thing being manifested is created as a high-level reflection of the ideal, whether that be some external, perfect ideal or a collective mental ideal of the concept.

Creating a conceptual embodiment is a different matter entirely.

• For Platonic Form type concepts, this is relatively simple to think of. It is likely creating an entity (or converting an existing entity into one) that is unified, on some level, with the form in question. Low level embodiments might be barely unified with it at all, or may even just be participating in the form to a high degree, while higher level embodiments may be fully unified with the form (thus entailing full control over everything the form encompasses) or even encompassing the form entirely (thus being fully beyond it due to containing the entirety of it as an aspect, as opposed to the whole, of their being).

• For mental type concepts, this is a bit more difficult. I mean, similarly, this would most likely be creating an entity that is unified with the concept in question on some level, but what does that actually mean in this context? Do they just reflect the ideas behind the concept perfectly? Or is it more like since the concept is an construct created to categorise and encompass an aspect of reality on an abstract level to allow for comprehension of it, an embodiment of a given concept is an entity that fully represents this aspect of reality (as opposed to just the abstract notion of it) as a single entity and, even though the concept isn't actually the basis of it, therefore controls that aspect of reality? So for example, an embodiment of the concept of color wouldn't be just an entity that perfectly reflects what we conceive of as 'color', but rather an entity that represents everything the concept of 'color' is thought of as encompassing. In this way, every instance of color can be thought of as an aspect of this entity, and they would control every instance of color. This would also mean that changes in the concept of 'color' by humanity as a whole would affect what the entity actually encompasses. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if I articulated this correctly, but oh well.

• Fundamentally, my question boils down to what being a conceptual embodiment actually means if concepts are thought of as mental ideals rather than external, abstract forms.

Finally, at least for now, we get to one more to do with Conceptual Lordship than anything else. In essence, this is considering how it deals (or doesn't) with things that transcend concepts in some way.

• Something that transcends concepts should be impossible to affect with concepts. Does this mean that they transcend everything a given concept encompasses? It would seem so, though that puts Conceptual Transcendence at risk of being practically identical to Absolute Transcendence, since they should transcend the concept of 'totality'. Not sure how this works. Any thoughts?

• Despite this, Conceptual Lordship is an absolute power, so it should be capable of taking concepts and manifesting them at an absolute level (e.g., manifesting the concept of 'death' at an absolute level would result in Absolute Death Inducement), which could possibly apply to a Conceptually Transcendent entity? This seems a lot like comparing absolutes.

• On a different side of things, let's take Absolute Transcendence. It is obviously transcendent of concepts and thus is in no way beholden to the concept of 'Absolute Transcendence'. However, if Conceptual Lordship were to infuse or manifest this concept into itself, or just make itself an absolute-level embodiment of the concept, would it achieve Absolute Transcendence? I personally think probably yes, but I'd like to see what everyone else thinks. The idea of using a concept to go beyond concepts does seem a bit odd, but I suppose this is Conceptual Lordship.

Oh, and do you think Conceptual Lordship should be considered a Form/Expression of Omnipotence, as it is currently?

So yeah, I think that's everything for now. What do you think?

What meta concept(s) would you like to use and why? What would you do with it? And, if a Supreme Being offered you Meta-Concept Manipulation, would you accept it, knowing that it will seriously impact your sanity?

How insane do you have to be to use Conceptual Lordship or Meta Concept Manipulation? This is a joke, by the way. But a degree of insanity is definitely needed! XD

So. The absolute mind page got updated and not gonna lie they got buffed based on how the capabilities said but what interest me is the Application.

I wan't to hear your opinions on the applications of absolute mind. They even add absolute will/Omniarch which is pretty insteresting.

Just like what it says up there ☝️☝️☝️☝️

Should Concepts and Meta-Concepts be main/inherent applications of Perspective Manipulation and Meta Perspective Manipulation respectively?

That's ^ essentially the main question my reasoning being, Idealism. Long story short Idealism is a philosophical term/school of thought that pretty much says "Reality is indistinguishable and inseparable from perception and understanding; that reality is a mental construct closely connected to ideas."

It's where the capabilities of Perspective Manipulation says "all concepts like time, space and causality exists because they are perceived to exist". Which pretty much falls in line with Idealist views. I assume that's where the power was conceptualized from (aside from seeing it in fiction). I'm currently reworking the power so that it makes sense and isn't contradicting itself and am probably going to add a level section as well as "tools" section like in Mentifery and finally a Nature of the Power kind of linking it to Idealism with that being how it achieves its feats.

Anyone who thinks it should remain a solely subjective power please elaborate. My reasoning for it to actually warp reality would be the users such as Coyote (Gunnerkrigg Court) and Players in both Echochrome and Superliminal. The level section would allow for distinction between those who can warp reality and those who can't. High-level users being Coyote literally grabbing the moon and Antimony's fingerprint appearing on it in reality. So, it is a viable page with users. Just needs a rework which I'm currently doing.

Your up against Rimuru Tempest and Anos Voldigoad

Here are your powers. Can you win, or at the least, survive?

Non descrip oc

Acceleration manipulation

Acrylic manipulation

Afterlife manipulation

Alchemy

Amorphous solid manipulation

Amusement park manipulation

Animal manipulation

Annoyance manipulation

Apocalyptic force manipulation

Appliance creation

Archetype: Ascended demon

Armorsmithing mastery

Asphalt manipulation

Beginning dominance

Behavior manipulation

Big rip inducement

Bladesmithing mastery

Boundary manipulation

Brainwave manipulation

Brass manipulation

Breath manipulation

Californium manipulation

Card flight

Cardiology manipulation

Card spike projection

Chaos empowerment

Civilization advancement

Civilization manipulation

Claircognizance

Concept destruction

Conclusion dominance

Culinary mastery

Currency generation

Cymatic sound manipulation

Disaster inducement

Disease manipulation

Dispute manipulation

Door manipulation

Dual warping

Economics mastery

Economy manipulation

Electromagnetic warping

Elemental empowerment

Elemental generation

Elf physiology

Enhanced wisdom

Environmental adaptation

Environment creation

Exotic matter manipulation

Fantasy world creation

Genetic access

Gravitational wave manipulation

Health manipulation

Holy gift

Intelligence manipulation

Interaction manipulation

Internet manipulation

Intuitive empathy

Knowledge augmentation

Labyrinth creation

Lake/river manipulation

Literary manipulation

Literary mastery

Logic manipulation

Love mastery

Lunar manipulation

Maser manipulation

Mathematics manipulation

Media manipulation

Meta concept manipulation

Meta magic

Metaphysics manipulation

Meta time manipulation

Meta variable manipulation

Musical mastery

Neuro psychic knowledge

Obstacle manipulation

Occurrence manipulation

Paradox manipulation

Parapsychology mastery

Party mastery

Periodic element creation

Personal domain creation

Philosophical mastery

Philosophy manipulation

Physics distortion

Poetry mastery

Possibility manipulation

Primordial force manipulation

Primordial particle manipulation

Pseudomathematics manipulation

Pseudoscience manipulation

Spell casting

Sulfur manipulation

Temporal mastery

Time manipulation

Uncertainty manipulation

Universal force manipulation

Unreachability

Vice inducement

Virtual warping

Virtue detection

Virtue inducement

Virtue manipulation

Wetland manipulation

White hole creation

Yang manipulation

Yin manipulation

Zinc manipulation

So It has been a couple of months since me and my friend Azqth(Azoth), Had a discussion on what Meta concept Manipulation, manipulates, this has gone into a variety of things such as the Abstract Plane, the place where abstracts such as concepts originated from and reside, this further lead into my idea of that power called Abstract plane manipulation which I was hoping it would become an actual power but idk the update regarding that (Carcasss?!), And I Spoke about that we will discuss what would Meta-Abstract Plane Manipulation manipulate? since it is above Abstract plane manip, Now I have just come up with a hypothesis. Allow me to explain:

Now the question at hand here is What would Meta Concept Manipulation, manipulate? this idea of mine was triggered via my recent Vs Battle post, Omnikinesis Vs Author Authority (more specifically AA), here is The catch; What if Meta-Concept Manipulates The concepts of everything that is considered Meta (Beyond the normal structure of things), for example within a fictional story setting you have the characters, the plot, the cosmology etc, within this Many if not all would consider The Narrative to be Meta, meaning it's beyond the cosmology, the characters, plots and so on, the narrative is the fundamental property of the story, even for op characters, Cosmic beings etc, they are nothing without the narrative as it is the backbone and life of the story, however, there are an abundance of different narrative and in order for a narrative to come to fruition it must first exist as an idea...as a concept, This is what Meta concept manipulation, manipulates, The concept of these meta structures, object and whatever, anything and everything that defines what is meta, it will be able to manipulate the concepts of the beyondness these "things" (or whatever it's called) that are META.

(this also shows the boundless gap between this and Abstract Plane Manipulation, as what is meta can be deemed incomprehensible and indeterminate to whatever is below them, thus @AzQth to answer your question this is what would be beyond the logical and illogical alike).

What are your Thoughts?

Okay So I remember back a couple of months ago I think, where myself and Azqth were discussing something about Meta-concepts manipulation and how it works (i don't remember it in complete detail) and I suggested that I think meta-concepts would be concepts that are beyond the plane of Abstracts where concepts reside, and the keyword in this is (Abstract Plane) The Realm beyond all forms of physicality and Space-time. Today i would like to suggest a power that would give control over the said plane.

Abstract Plane Manipulation: what the capabilities of this power speak of is that the user of this power would be able to control and manipulate the plane at which concepts and ideas reside and perhaps it is also the place where said concepts originate from, unlike concept manipulation which controls the concepts itself, this power allows the user to control Nigh if not all concepts, excluding Meta-concepts which are supposed to be beyond this place itself, Users may even be able to have sovereignty over The Plane Of Abstracts, This power would be superior to concept manipulation as it is not just manipulating concepts but the plane where concepts reside and as the source of concepts.

Location: I view this place as somewhere in the boundless or the Outerverse as It would be automatically beyond even space-time and other levels of existence in the sense that everything exists because of concepts and since this is the place that made said concepts it would be beyond them and is the source of them at the same time.

This also gives a more crazier perspective of how mad meta-concept is incomprehensible, as it would be beyond this very plane and even more into boundlessness.

(I may develop the Meta-concept version of this one)

What are your thoughts?