All posts by
1. COMMAS. USE THEM.
2. weakness and costs usually don't matter, because for the most part, most writers decide to give psionics and magic the same weakness: stamina. more deadly costs, such as your soul, or a body part (of you, or of someone else) also apply to high level psoinics in a way, when you must pay with your sanity, your soul, your mind, your existence, etc. so limitations of that kind and costs really doesn't matter at this point.
3. versitility wise, magic triumph because psionics is an aplication of magic. magic is psionics+science manipulation+low level probaility manipulation added some mystic properties, and supernatural vibe. of course it is going to be above psionics.
almighty magic: you can do whatever you want, simply based on your emotions and feelings.
almighty mind: you can do whatever you want, simply based on your thoughts.
almighty science: you can do whatever you want, simply based on technology/calculations.
on it's highest levels, they are indistinguished, because they can do exactly the same, but through differet medium.
however, if we look at those on a closer and smaller scale, magic is superior, because magic posses both the ability to manipulate science and to use psionics as part of it.
psionics is limited to mind based abilities, with the exception of teleportaiton, sometimes.
so, telekinesis, telepathy, astral projection, etc.
science manipulation is limited to the effect you can have on your surrounding, and manipulate the basic laws of everything around you.
while you cannot necessarily affect someone's mind, or create astral projections, or "move" objects with your mind, you can defentially control all physical matter, and manipulate the laws that binds everything.
magic allow you to manipulate both the mind and matter, spirit and body, reality and dream.
you can move thigns with your thoughts, create astral projections, create links with other's mind, and at the same time you can manipulate the basic laws of existence, manipulate your surrounding as you see fit.
magic, at the end of the day, is the superior form to all of that.
it is, and it is a power that was made only after this discussion was over.
no problem.
and yes, it depends on the writer.
going by abrahamic tradition, angels would always defeat fallen angel's/devils, or demons, and god would always defeat satan.
in modern pop-culture, however, with the romantisation of the demons and stuff, which is a process started with the book paradise lost, things started to change a bit.
now it's kind of a 50/50 chance, depands on the writer and his view of religion.
nah, magic beats it because there is litterally no reason why not, and psionics just have too many weaknesses and complications.
supernatural, by definition, is above the natural laws.
if something is supernatural, then by definition, it's immposible to find it out, and decifer it.
at it highest form, telekinesis obtained via psionics can give you the ability to manipulate quantom strings and foam, and by that manipulate physics.
as Arthur C clarke said:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
that's the basic principle in sci-fi.
You use things who do not exist in our world, but are exlainable by science, one way or another, even if it's just a pseudo science.
the difference is that in fantasy the explanation is magic, and that's it.
in sci-fi, the explanation can be anything, as long as it have SOME connection to science.
even when magic have systems, and classifications in fantasy, that still doens't change the fact that you never even bother to explain what magic is.
the moment you do, it's sci-fi, not fantasy.
psionics allow you, via you'r mind, to manipulate the laws of physics, at it highest degree, but nothing more then that.
magic allow you to outright ignore them, at it's highest forms.
psionics would find an explanation to what they are doing, which would have SOME anchoring in science, while magicians would just out right say that the only explanation is amgic.
that is the simple difference.
it you still don't understand it, then I'm sorry, but there is nothing I can do to try and explain it.
not really.
that's the whole point.
psionics involve natural forces, but natural forces we yet to find out about.
magicians use supernatural resources, meaning, something above the nature, something we can't find out about.
that's the entire meaning of the word supernatural.
something above nature, unexplainable.
remember Arthur C Clark's third law.
psionics vs magic is like sci-fi vs fantasy.
most people doesn't actually get it right.
but most people TRY to make psionics being "scientifical" as much as they can.
I can't think right now about any spesific example, but yeah, most of the time tey try to include in it the whole "you need to train" thing, and about the dangers in it, and how it's not some sort of a magic.
which is exactly the point of magic.
magic was never meant to be delicated, or interesting.
magic is the simple explanation for every plot hole.
that's the litteral definition of magic:
the cause for everything which is supernatural in it's core.
meaning, if you can't explain it, it's magic.
that's the whole point.
that's why if a user of psionics would try to create a fire ball, he would need to work a lot for that, while the magician would just create it.
because science needs explanations and back up.
magic IS the explanation.
well, they are more of a power level ranks.
nigh omnipotent is a level of power, while omnipotence is actually more of a state of being.
to put it simply, everything which is regarded as an omnipotent power is immediatelly above everything else, and there is no way to overcome it.
that's a definition of this state.
nigh omnipotence is basically everything from simple reality warping to the point you are seemingly omnipotent.
as of the psionics vs magic, still, the point I made is the same:
if a user of psionic is fighting against a magician, and both of them are using the same ability, for example, shooting a fire ball, the process of the creation of the attack in psionics is far more difficult and complex then in magic.
if we would say both have teleportation, then the user of psionics would need to regard the way he teleport, is it by moving his particles, is it by warping space, etc, while the magician would jsut disappear and reappear in an instant, jut by snaping his fingers or something.
if it's about telekinesis, it's still holds the same weight, because using psionics limits you to the realm of physics, while magic exists on the metaphysical realm.
basically, if you are a user of psionics, and you are using telekinesis, you need to regard the laws of motions and thermodynamics, the laws of neuton, nuclear physics (if you manipulate sub atomic particles) and more, and for each action you make, there would be so many different effects you must consider before each action, or else you might tear appart the entire battle field.
while, with magic, on the other hand, you could jsut use telekinesis, and everything would be fine.
becuase magic does not obey the laws of physics, it exists above them.
when you see in many sci-fi stories someone using psionics to do such a thing, and it all works out fine, that's just because of lazy writing and lack of understanding.
when a character is using magic, however, that's because it's the nature of the concept.
if we would compare the two while they both use the same ability, for example, telekinesis, or fire manipulation, but each one in his own way, then we are going to end up with the magician winning, because his way is way simplier, and can achive results the other one can't achive.
if you are going to let each one of them to use a different ability, then yeah, sure, the psionics one can win, if it's a situation in which the psionics one is a well trained psychic who can use telekinesis to manipulate sub atomic particles and can warp reality, while the magician jsut foudn out he is a magician, and doesn't know anything but summoning one fire ball, throwing it on the enemy, and then passing out from exhaustion.
then, yeah, he would win.
but if we are speaking about an even ground, then the magician would win.
well, here is the thing:
we usually cathegorize it with levels, in which omnipotent is the highest level, nigh omnipotent is the one below, and so forth.
if we take magic and psionics on each one of those levels, and assume the user have the same level of stamina and energy, we would reach to the inavoidable conclusion that psionics would narrow the user's capabilities into a very spesific form, while magic can come in so many ways and variations, and have unlimited possibilities of action.
more over, magic is msotly based on emotion, while psionics need you to think carefully with everything you do.
or else, you won't be able to properlly fight.
for example, let's say a user of psionics and a magician fights, and each one of them is throwing a fire ball at the other.
the user of psionics would need to heat up the air by moving the molecules faster and faster, while also shaping it with telekinesis, and after gathering the heat, he would need to somehow light it up, and make the fire sustainable.
a magician would jsut create a fucking fire ball and throw it.
again, sorry if it's worded weird, and if I didn't explained it properly, but basically, the only thing good in omnipotence is the fact that it's have the shittiest plot armor there is.
basically, you know a character is omnipotent because the author said this character is omnipotent, meaning the author gave this character unlimited power in her verse, PLUS the fact that she have special protaction from anything possible by the author himself.
omnipotent.
you see, the difference between omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence is not really a matter of power, rather a matter of status.
someone can have an unlimited control over reality, like what the reality stone in marvel comics gives you, to have an infinite power, yet you would still be considered NIGH-omnipotent.
basically the reason why those powers defeat powers who are seemingly omnipotent are the status.
in other words, plot armor.
there is no actual difference between physical godhood and almighty science.
in fact, most people thinks that doctor mannhaten, who is a user of physical godhood, is omnipotent, even though he is only NIGH-omnipotent.
the real difference that would be between a user of physical godhood and almighty science would be the status.
in other words, level.
they are both, in a sense, the same thing.
it's just that one of them is omnipotent.
one of them have the omnipotent plot armor, that makes him immediatelly infinitly stronger then the other.
there is no actual limit to a high user of nigh-omnipotence.
the only limit is someone who is on a different class of nigh-omnipotence.
and it goes so forth, on and on, until you reach omnipotence.
eventually, by name, omnipotence is a class of it's own.
the only thing nigh-omnipotence of the highest calibar can't do that omnipotence can do is to defeat nigh-omnipotence of such a level.
if that's confusing, then sorry if I'm not explaining it good enough.
but basically, as variations of omnipotence, almighty magic and almighty science are the highest forms of magic and science manipulation.
as such, they don't simply have the unlimited power that omni magic and physical godhood, but they also have the unbeatable plot armor and status of omnipotece, making them invincible.
BUT, since they are just VARIATIONS, and not the real thing, the plot armor of omnipotence is stronger.
not really.
it's an omnipotent force.
so yeah, it could negate psychopotence, as it is only nigh-omnipotence, and anti psychic presence isn't all that much of a "powerful" ability, anti magic is the same, but omnipotence is omnipotence, and have the full fledge plot armor of omnipotence, and almighty science and magic are both forms of omnipotence.
they ar eon the same level as nonexistance, so it won't work on them, and they are omnipotence in general, so fighting them is futile.
you said you want to quite the argument.
so, quite the argument.
easy as that.