All posts by AzQth

About to go to sleep (I may or may not have completely lost track of time, whoops!) so will respond properly at a later date.

I just wanted to comment about the images. It almost feels like its a progression, like...

• calm/prepared

• ascending

• ascended

With the last one being significantly later, and more along the lines of 'someone's done something he really doesn't like and now they have a transcendent being staring at them from outside creation. He's not happy.'

(in case you couldn't tell, the last image is my favourite)

Two main possibilities come to mind, if both exist in one verse:

1. Neither are actually omnipotent. Both are nigh-omnipotent, with the other side as their primary limitation.

2. They are actually two sides of the same being. Any perceived difference or opposition between them is actually just a result of limited (i.e., non-omnipotent) perspectives trying to interpret an omnipotent being.

Happy birthday!! 🎂🎉🥳

Ok, this looks interesting!

@Keefdreewill That makes sense - it wouldn't be much of a power if it also obliterated the user. I mean, there are powers like that in fiction, but it would kind of ruin the point of putting it in a poll like this if it was like that. That's an interesting thought though - would Gojo's Domain Expansion count as an Eldritch Location?

Anyway, I think my choice would probably remain the same. Reality Filtering feels less... extreme, I guess? I could feasibly have a filter with some minor alterations added onto reality, perhaps granting a bit of regeneration or something like that, but I struggle to imagine Eldritch Mode and Eldritch Location Manipulation doing subtle/minor effects. I'm sure it could if you were creative about it, but it doesn't seem particularly intrinsic to it. On the opposite end of things, I can definitely imagine Reality Filtering creating large-scale or otherwise extreme effects/alterations.

Hmm... interesting.

Trying to ignore any preconceptions from any particular series, or even existing abilities, here's how I would rank these:

Logic & Illogical - everything else here is, in some way, a concept dependent upon logic. Even Existence, in spite of its vast scope, is a part of a binary opposition (existence/nonexistence) which operates within a logical system that reasons about such things. To be able to subvert this reasoning then, as the Illogical side would, would be to subvert the normal rules of existence and nonexistence. E.g., acting and being present without existing, resulting in a state of being where nothing should be able to properly interact with you because you don't exist, but you can still do things and be there in the world regardless. Note that this is not treating Logic as an internal set of rules for Existence (as that would likely make Existence superior) but rather more simply as a framework of reasoning.

Thoughts OR Existence - this is one I'm not entirely sure about. On the one hand, it is possible to think about logic, existence, 'beyond existence', etc, but on the other hand, many of those thoughts will be highly surface-level, particularly thoughts about things like the scale of Existence and what it would mean to be beyond it, which are both impossible to truly grasp. The question then becomes whether those surface-level thoughts on something are sufficient for whatever power is derived from Thoughts. Logic and Illogical definitely ranks above this, because the 'Illogical' side by definition includes everything that Logic does not encompass, whereas if there are things that Thoughts do not encompass, then they should not be included/possible with this power. The issue, of course, is that if thoughts do not encompass them, we can't think about them to know what they are, beyond this sort of highly abstract, meta sense. Existence encompasses everything that is; Creation, Destruction, Cause, Effect, Space and Time, etc. Unlike Logic (again, assuming we aren't taking it as an internal set of rules for existence), these things are phenomena occuring in Existence, rather than abstract conceptual frameworks. Well, perhaps Cause and Effect could be considered one, but it seems less abstract than Logic, as causality is something observable in the world around us, whereas logic is more used to reason about it. Regardless, this means that Existence would be able to exert power over the remaining concepts.

Cause and Effect - Every act of creation and destruction has a cause, and is a cause. Every thought has a cause and is a cause. Thus, Cause and Effect would seem to have power over all of these things. Anything interacting with anything else should rely on this framework of Causality, unless it is working via Illogical principles.

Creation and Destruction - generally can be thought of as occuring within the framework of causality and space-time (mainly Time). For something to be created, it must once have not been, which requires a past, requiring Time as a whole. Similarly, for something to be destroyed, it must transition from being whole to, well, not being whole (or even just not being), which requires a past. However, it would likely be capable of direct acts of creation and destruction in a way that Space and Time would not be capable of, such as the creation of new abilities. The other abilities here, however, would likely permit for creation and destruction in their own ways.

Space and Time - Now, on the one hand, something like causality tends to be thought of in the framework of Time - a cause occurs and then the effect results from it. Without Time, it would seem that Causality could not work properly. Space is less important here, as it would seem to be a purely physical framework, though if it includes conceptual/metaphysical 'spaces' (perhaps in the sense of 'sets'), then it's definitely brought up to the same level as Time, if not higher (this would actually likely bring it up to the level of Existence, or possibly even just above it, as this could include something like 'possibility space', or 'the space of all existent things' and 'the space of all nonexistent things').

So yeah, I would probably go for Logic and Illogical.

Just a bit late, but made it in the end!

Reality:

Reality Condition seems to imply an intuition towards using Reality Filtering to enhance one's own condition, which would definitely be a good starting point for learning to use that power in more diverse ways. It would also allow for improvements to intelligence/creativity that would be useful for understanding Reality Filtering and coming up with new ways to use it.

When it comes to Reality Filtering, I tend to view it like layers in an art program. Each layer can add something new or mask something from a previous layer, and the art piece as a whole is comprised of the sum total effects of every layer. However, if you remove a layer, then whatever it added is removed and whatever it masked is returned, so it's less destructive/permanent than just painting everything on a single layer. Similarly, Reality Filtering can add filters to reality that either filter something in or out, or a combination of both to modify an existing thing. It can filter in/out physical or metaphysical things, and possibly even more, such as adding a new axiom to reality. Reality as a whole is comprised of the sum total effects of every filter upon it. Presumably, newer or 'higher' filters take precedence over older or 'lower' filters. If a filter is removed, then everything it filtered in/out is removed/restored. However, I would assume that persistant effects that didn't rely on the filter remain even after it was removed, since for as long as the filter remains in place, it is part of reality. For example, if I add a filter in which I have telekinesis and move an object with it, then remove the filter, the object should stay where I moved it to. The issue comes when the effect relies on the filter, such as if I were to add a filter in which I have the ability to make single objects exist in two places at once. In this case, the object existing in two places at once isn't something that could happen in baseline reality, but is being permitted by the existence of the filter declaring that I have the power to make it happen. If I then remove the filter, I would think reality would then reassert itself, causing the object to collapse down to only one of two locations, or some similar rectification of the anomalous effect.

This power also reminds me of Semiokinetics/Semiontokinetics in SCP, which manipulate the Semiosphere (the medium through which information about reality travels before it is observed) to create distortions in it that produce alterations to reality by causing reality to appear to adhere to a non-real axiom (which is then made real by collective consensus). I can imagine Reality Filtering as a variation of this that generates and manipulates 'filters' in the Semiosphere that alter information passing through them to produce an effect on reality. Anyway, I digress. I do notice that Toaru seems to be the main example of this power, and I probably wouldn't want it if it works exactly as it does in that series, since the phases seem to completely overwrite the world(?). Then again, I did see someone suggesting that Esper powers in that are like local phases that apply the Esper's own altered version of reality over the existing one, which I'd be more ok with. Either way, just going off of how the power is described on the page, I'd be fine with taking that.

Being/Life:

Ultimate Being doesn't really appeal to me that much. I don't have a desire to be some kind of "perfect" organism/entity.

Absolute Life-Force Manipulation is absolute-scale manipulation of the force that causes life to emerge and persist. There are the obvious effects, like resurrection, taking life, creating life, etc. The highest effect of this would likely be the possibility of Life-Force Warping on an absolute scale, though I suppose this would depend on how exactly life-force works? Regardless, the primary effects wouldn't be my first choice.

Ethereal:

Ascended seems to entail elevation to a higher state of being - typically a non-physical one, either being metaphysical or energetic in nature (given the second power is Ethereal Manipulation, I assume that it's Spiritual Ascension in this case, as that mentions "existing as ethereal energy"), though a Nigh-Ascended state is also possible. There is significantly elevated power as a result of this, but I'm personally not a fan of the idea of becoming completely non-physical. Ethereal Manipulation might be able to subvert this (assuming Ascended can't by itself, which it might be able to). Regardless, this state of being seems to come with a natural degree of separation from the human experience, which isn't something I entirely like.

Ethereal Manipulation is a power I kind of dislike because I feel ether is poorly defined, or rather, its definition varies based on the series. I also tend to dislike when it's "the energy behind all forms of creation and destruction" because that feels like it detracts from powers like Omnificence and Absolute Destruction by providing an underlying reason/source for their acts of creation and destruction. But this is just personal bias. If we take the power as it is on the page, the user should be able to use ether as a basis to do near anough anything, an energy source that can be applied in a balance of chaos and order, creation and destruction to reshape existence. The Ascended state would no doubt enhance this, likely by putting the user in a state of being where they can better comprehend the ether they are manipulating - if its scope is really that vast, then human comprehension might not be sufficient to cover its full scope. Also, if this is the form of Ascension mentioned before, where the user exists as ethereal energy, then Ascension would be bolstered in turn by Ethereal Manipulation due to the user literally existing as ether they can directly manipulate. Due to the aforementioned personal bias, however, I would not take this power over the others available.

Eldritch:

Eldritch Mode gives access to a transformation into a form with eldritch traits, which is better in my mind than a physiology, as it is, by nature, impermanent, and I wouldn't really want to enter into that kind of eldritch (and thus likely non-human comprehensible) state of being permanently. Of course, I can't imagine that this wouldn't have some kind of lasting effect, given that, as the applications imply, this seems to affect the user's soul. Or maybe the power itself protects the user from that. Regardless, it would doubtless be a powerful transformation, as eldritch beings are typically portrayed as possessing power beyond human comprehension in some way, with the strongest being able to influence everything (or, in the case of one like Yog'Sothoth, be everything). I still feel like there are risks associated with transitioning from a human mind to a human-incomprehensible state of being and then back to a human mind.

Eldritch Location Manipulation would basically let you make domains that disobey the laws of physics and, in more extreme cases, metaphysics - so definitely a very powerful ability, creating places where potentially anything could happen. While some eldritch locations are dangerous to simply behold, others are liveable (e.g., the Oldest House in Control), if not beneficial to live in, and this power seems to permit the user to survive in even normally deadly eldritch locations. Though, similarly to Eldritch Mode, I can't help but wonder how the user's mind would need to be altered to accomodate this. Or perhaps the power, being about things that often defy logic, itself defies logic surrounding this and protects the user without altering their mind.

Regardless, I think I would ultimately choose the Reality Moveset. It's one of the only ones that wouldn't affect my state of being unless I wanted it to, it seems to come with a bit of head start in learning the power (Reality Condition giving an innate proficiency in enhancing my state of being using Reality Filtering), it can do pretty much anything if used correctly (granted, so can the others), and the effects are largely non-destructive (in the sense that a filter can be removed and the prior existential state recovered. Granted, if the removed filter altered things on lower filters, then those would probably be permanent, but it means that alterations such as adding, removing or manipulating a law of reality can be easily undone, whereas other forms of reality manipulation may struggle to recover it just right).

@MisfortunateNed13 Would we get all of the powers from the selected option, all the time? And would we also get downsides/states of being associated with them? I think it heavily depends on this.

For instance, if you suddenly gain the power of SCP-3812, with all the downsides, then you would likely end up going through all the same stages, including an 'extremely advanced Eigenmann-Vietor schizophrenia complex' due to perceiving several higher narrative layers while present in a lower layer, followed by uncontrolled ascension through higher narrative layers, forcibly causing you to leave behind everything you know.

Of course, I expect that a lot of the more objective downsides would be overruled by some of the higher powers you'd get. Existence/Nonexistence Embodiment from IS and IS NOT, Primordial Embodiment of Death from the Brothers Death (and Primordial Darkness Embodiment from the All-Death), Author Authority from Swann's Proposal, and so on. Of course, these come with their own, more subjective downsides - namely, the associated states of being and the fact that they would also probably entail leaving everything you know behind.

On the other hand, if you can choose what powers you get from the series at any given moment, you could feasibly do something like start with low-level reality bending and work your way up slowly through higher and higher tiers of it, essentially training yourself to handle the power instead of throwing yourself into high-level reality bending and potentially ending up destroying the universe from an intrusive thought or something like that. You could also go for powers like 682's regeneration and adaptation to ensure you live for as long as you want to, and do so in good health. And if you ever really need to, you can do something like pull Axiom/Truth Manipulation from Kate McTiriss's Proposal, which is perhaps one of the simpler large-scale reality manipulation abilities (in that it literally just makes anything saved to the SCP-001 file objectively true, so the power you'd get from this would presumably be similarly simple in application).

Yep. As it is described on the page, a user of Boundless Inner World is functionally omnipotent within their world, and so can do pretty much anything. While a truly Omnipotent being would still overrule them, anything less is subject to their authority within that place.

@Statz02 While they could induce themselves to have those things, that still requires a use of their power. If we're assuming that they have no prep time, then they wouldn't really have the time to use their power at all before getting speed blitzed by the JLA Speedsters.

Of course, if they do have any amount of prep time, they could easily get themselves to the point of matching the speed of those characters and being able to win (e.g., by inducing victory for themselves).

Depends. If both sides start out aware of each other, and do the most logical thing, then the speedsters should be able to deal with the Inducement user before they can actually induce anything. Assuming nothing has already been induced, the user still starts out with normal human reaction times, which many Speed Force empowered individuals outpace by a significant margin.

If they have a moment to work, however, there exists plenty of inducements that would let them win. E.g., Victory Inducement, Defeat Inducement, Fact Inducement, Paradox Inducement, Transcendence Inducement, etc.

One thing I've considered before is the difference between Boundless Inner World and a limitless Personal Reality. And I think the answer is that Personal Reality, while subject to the will of the user, is often fundamentally separated from the regular world in some way, with the user generally being far less powerful outside their world than inside it. Even if their world is filled with god-like entities or incredible powers, such things are generally restricted to the confines of their reality. On the other hand, with Boundless Inner World, the world is specifically characterised by being internal to the user. It is within them, in some vague, probably metaphysical capacity, and thus so are any entities, powers, etc, within it. So it stands to reason that the user should be capable of utilising these things for themselves, even while not within the BIW.

In other words, while the user is definitely at their most powerful while within their Boundless Inner World, being functionally omnipotent within it, its internal nature means that they should be capable of deriving power from it while beyond its borders. Whether that be Inner Gods at their command, raw transcendent power/energy, a well-defined ability - created and shaped internally - or anything else, it is within them simply due to its position within their world. This means that a user of Boundless Inner World would very likely be able to acquire the powers you asked about, and many others.

@TheDevil7777 It's good! I think the added trivia and examples help to give some good context/evidence for the claims in the Capabilities section, and provide better examples of why/how it tends to be more powerful than most magic.

@Keefdreewill Uni, mostly. I'm home for Easter now, though. I've actually been going back through a few of your posts that I missed, though I'm not sure if it's kind of been too long to respond for many of them 😅

Yeah, I was definitely overthinking it. It would probably be easier to think of it as Personal Reality taken to an absolute level. My main issue with taking it as encompassing absolutely everything is that it feels like there would then be no difference between it and Omniarch/Omni-Manipulation. I suppose in the case of Pre-Retcon Beyonder, his realm was separate from the Marvel Omniverse, and he had to enter it himself. His reality warping just came from being a realm so much vaster than the one he entered into (at least, as I understand it).

Aren't concepts themselves immaterial, so Immaterial Manipulation should be able to manipulate concepts? Unless it's that it can, but to a more limited capacity than Concept Manipulation, perhaps being unable to manifest them into reality, since that would entail the manifestation of a material aspect/representation of an immaterial thing, which would take it beyond its bounds.

Even so, I'm leaning towards Immaterial Manipulation because, well, things like logic, truth, axioms, probability, etc, are all immaterial, so susceptible to manipulation by this power. Granted, Concept Manipulation can probably manipulate them too via control over their concepts, or concepts related to manipulation, but Immaterial Manipulation feels more... direct, I guess? Besides, I can always use it to give myself power over the material via the immaterial, e.g., by making it true that "I can manipulate matter".