As I know nothing of the game(?) and frankly have no interest reading extended argument (I've had few too many on my own Talk-page, thank you... -_-;), I can only ask the basic question used to define who is User of any power: is there any direct, provable and official facts to base it on?

In other words, is it canon or fanon? --Kuopiofi (talk) 12:49, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

First, allow me apologize for my previous behaviour. I'm not a very patient man but that doesn't excuse my letting such a thing as frustration get the best of me.

I have several in-game pieces of evidence that proves Giratina created the Distortion World and has a certain degree of control of it, as well as being called the embodiment and ruler of the Distortion World.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 08:56, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

My sources are Pokemon Platinum and Pokemon HGSS, canon to the main series of games.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 20:58, June 23, 2016 (UTC)


Giratina's Role Screenshot 2016-04-13-01-26-28

Giratina Universe Creation

BHVvdGH Screenshot 2016-04-29-09-21-50

Cyrus's statement is also supported by Cynthia in HGSS where she mentions Giratina aided in Creation.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 13:49, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

As I don't follow other peoples Talk-pages (and why should I?), if you answered there I didn't.

From what I see, only one of those says anything that would back your claim ("the shadowy pokemon must have made this bizarre world"), others either relate to that pokemon being embodiment, balancer or ruler of it.

Now the question is if that "must" really means that pokemon really is creator or if it is in-game opinion of the character. --Kuopiofi (talk) 09:18, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

"Shaped" not "created"? --Kuopiofi (talk) 19:12, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

What was the power you wanted to add Giratina? I've completely forgot... --Kuopiofi (talk) 04:56, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

giratina is definitely not universe embodiment... Edit

How exactly is giratina the embodiment of the universe? you do realize the universe consists of more then a single dimension right? For one thing most universal embodiment users don't have a physical form the way we would understand it. Besides if giratina truly were the embodiment of the universe it would be physically impossible to even capture him.SageM (talk) 06:13, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

Which can be said for all Pokemon who embody natural forces. I don't particularly see why they would introduce any Pokemon into the game, if you can't capture it.

I don't completely understand what you mean by that. The Distortion World is stated to consist of space and time, no mentioning of other dimensions anywhere.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 06:21, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

If giratina were the embodiment of the universe it would make it even more powerful then Arceus, which is definitely not the case here. And space and time are different dimensions entirely(Palkia and Diagla both exist in their own dimensions as does Arceus). 

The universe would be the world in which all the players exist in and the space outside of it and the worlds floating in it.(ie outer space), not the single dimension giratina lives in.

He is not a user. If he was you wouldn't be able to capture him at all, as there would be no physical body to even capture, it would be the same as capturing the world itself it a pokeball.SageM (talk) 06:27, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

And there are other dimensions as well, the Unown live in a separate dimension thats not a part of the pokemon world or the distortion world.SageM (talk) 06:32, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

Exactly. Not a part of. I don't see how entirely separate dimensions mean anything to Giratina's embodiment at all.

Again, you can capture Dialga and Palkia as well, who are literally time and space given form and are also stated to make up the World. I don't see why Giratina needs to be special in this regard.

The "single dimension" is stated to be a Universe several times, even in the article you linked to me. "It's definitely a real world."

I don't see how embodying a parallel Universe makes you stronger than God who made you.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 06:40, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

In fact its even confirmed in the game that there are other dimensions besides the distortion world, since after giratina appears and drags cyrus away, both Palkia and DIalga return to there own separate dimensions(neither of which have anything to do with the distortion world, as otherwise you would be able to find both of them there if they did.) Giratina is the only pokemon that exists in the distortion world and has no connection to either palkia or dialga's place of residence either in-game or out.SageM (talk) 06:42, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

The universe is considered to be everything, not just one single dimension. Compare giratina to the users that already exist on Universe embodiment, all of them are more then just one dimension.

To be the universe means being everything, all people, all worlds, all dimensions, space-time, anything and everything.

Also if giratina was the universe then capturing him would also give you palkia and dialga since they are part of the universe.

So for the final time, he is not the universe.SageM (talk) 06:48, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

I am not saying giratina isn't an embodiment of something, its just not a universal embodiment.SageM (talk) 06:52, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

"Because you say so". No dice especially as you make a habit of ignoring everything I say.

Look, this was stated in game and is not surprising at all that the embodiment of antimatter, is the embodiment of an antimatter universe.

The only possible contradiction, is literally based on game mechanics. This is a franchise where you can capture gods (and literally God) with a little ball whilst ten years old.

Doesn't stop Dialga and Palkia from creating a galaxy right in front of you.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 06:59, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

I accept that there are other dimensions.

Again, I have actually played the game.

What I don't accept, is the Pokemon verse is some kind of higher dimensional construct consisting of several temporal and spatial dimensions, actual temporal and spatial dimensions, not the separate realms they a depicted as.

That's literally wank.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 06:59, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Capabilities of Universal Embodiment-

"The user is able to become the universe itself controlling, manipulating and creating, destroying, recreating and reshaping virtually anything and everything in this universe reality, order and chaos, creation and destruction, life and death, and may also be able to create other universes, solar systems, star systems, and entire galaxies."

Giratina has never shown anything remotely like whats described in the capabilities here.

And the only one that can create universes or other dimensions is Arceus(since its responsible for the creation of everything, including the dimensions that palkia and dialga as well as giratina live in).SageM (talk) 06:59, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

I've already posted several pieces of evidence to support, yes, it's well within its capabilities.

And no, anime only. Arceus created them. It's creations are what actively make space-time continuums.

Palkia is literally stated to being a creator of parallel dimensions.User:TheMightyRegulator (talk) 07:08, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

So your telling me that he can kill anyone and bring them back to life? and destroy his own universe and recreate it, he can create new life, control time and space, rearrange and control regular matter, manipulate all of reality and is basically omnipotent?

Sorry but I don't buy that. He has never shown that kind of power game or otherwise. he can control antimatter and maybe his own world, but above that he not omnipotent nor can he control all of reality, time and space, creation and destruction or life and death.SageM (talk) 07:15, June 25, 2016 (UTC)SageM

Omnipotence? No. Arceus is stronger. Everything else though? Pretty much.

Screenshot 2016-04-29-09-03-40
Screenshot 2016-04-10-13-46-01

Sounds more like Dimension Creation to me really. Universe is quite a bit more, it'd be the whole Pokemon-series verse.

And series, keep this between yourself... --Kuopiofi (talk) 08:43, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Adding the pokemon to Dimensional Manipulation? I think it'd work. --Kuopiofi (talk) 11:04, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

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