Hello, fellow community members. Recently, I have come across an interesting dilemma about the general perception of Omnipotence on this wiki. I would like to present an alternate take, my personal interpretation, on Omnipotence.
The word Omnipotence is derived from the Latin words Omnis Potens (translation: all powerful). Fundamentally, Omnipotence is having unlimited power, nothing more, nothing less. However, the word has been twisted and turned such that the current description on this wiki is: "be supremely almighty and invincible, in every sense and aspect".
Another common definition which comes to mind is "having no limitations whatsoever". Essentially, omnipotent has become the common stand-in word for the Supreme Being. However, this interpretation is incorrect. Nowhere does it state that an omipotent being is invincible, all-knowing, etc.
Another universally accepted misconception is that Omniscience and Omnipresence are a pre-requisite for being omnipotent. This is true in context to an omnipotent being almighty and invincible, but by the simplest and purest interpretation (i.e. "all powerful") these two should not be necessary for someone to be considered omnipotent.
It makes sense considering the fact that Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience are always utilised in conjunction with each other, which would be redundant if the latter two were inclusive in the former.
While the Supreme Being has always been stated to possess all three of these attributes, it does not necessarily mean that the three attributes are always mutually inclusive. In rare cases, they might be mutually exclusive. Two (in)famous examples which come to mind are Kami Tenchi (from Tenchi Muyo!) and Pre-Retcon Beyonder (Marvel Comics). It is quite clear that the two of them have truly infinite power, and should be considered omnipotent since they are undoubtedly "all-powerful".
I realise that adopting this manner of thinking will fundamentally change many things, including many character tierings on the VSBattles wiki (eg: Kami Tenchi). I would love to hear from senior community members about their thoughts regarding my interpretation. I would appreciate it if members would atleast give thought to my theory, even if they disagree with it. I welcome all to discuss their observations and any alternate interpretations that they might have.
Well, I agree about that the traditional definition of the word does not require Omniscience or Omnipresence, and that the Wikipedia definition of omnipotence is different from the one employed here, but I think that the omnipotence page here would become cluttered with characters if we became less strict in our definition.
That said, as you know, the ranking system at VsBattles, where I am an admin, is under revision due to previously not making logical sense for the higher levels. The Anime Characters Fight wiki developed the best system that I have seen in my humble opinion.
And for the record, I think that Kami Tenchi is omniscient, as an automatic side effect of being in such an elevated position that all of existence looks simpler than a black dot on a white paper to such a being, but it has not been stated out loud.
@Antvasima: Yes, I agree that the Omnipotence page may become too cluttered. However, that does not mean adding additonal terms and conditions to an already hypothetical status. I believe that we instead need a revision of this wiki instead, by removing the Ultipotence page, adding the users to Omnipotence users. Meanwhile changing the Omnipotence page to something like 'Supreme Being physiology' or something similar, where the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient (all three, not just one) should be listed.
To put it simply, the current Ultipotence page page is what Omnipotence should look like, while the current Omnipotence page should be renamed to 'Supreme Being physiology'. I will consult DYBAD though, since he has much more experience regarding powers.
As for Kami Tenchi, I must disagree with you. Why? Again, you are simply considering Omnipotence to be inclusive of Omniscience (the very thing I'm trying to prove otherwise). Simply being infinitely above all of existence does not guarantee knowledge of the lower level planes. Pre-retcon Beyonder is a pretty good example of this. Despite being infinitely higher than the Marvel Multiverse, he did not have Omniscience (this is something that we both agree on). The Primal Monitor/Overmonitor is also a pretty good example of the same type. Infinitely more powerful, yet clearly not omniscient.
It doesn't matter how many degrees of infinity one is above the rest, but Omnipotence is not equal to having Omniscience, hence I cannot agree to Kami Tenchi being omniscient simply on the basis of him being omnipotent.
Well, I don't really mind merging together ultipotence and omnipotence, although you will have to take it up with the administrators for this wiki.
Anyway, I think in terms of the perspective of a higher-dimensional entity. Much like a 3-dimensional being like yourself would find a "1-dimensional" line on a paper extremely simple to comprehend, even a 5-dimensional entity would find 3-dimensional reality extremely simple to comprehend. Now imagine that elevation taken to unfathomable dimensionally boundless degrees. So, basically unless a work makes a specific point about showing that a character is not omniscient, logically it seems like these types of characters would find all of existence extremely simple to comprehend. That said, that is logic, and I agree with you that fiction isn't always logical.
@Antvasima: Yes, your example is correct. It is indeed easier for higher dimensional objects to perceive lower dimensional ones. However, your logic is also somewhat flawed in specifically assuming a 3-dimensional person perceiving a line on a paper easily.
Let's assume that there is a 1-dimensional object (a line segment) which is constantly shifting it's direction as its moving, like a snake. However, the length of the line -> 0. It is so infintesmally small, it cannot be seen by an electron microscope, let alone the naked eye. In a case like this, we 3-dimensional people have absolutely no way of knowing whether the line even exists, nor where it currently is or where it will be next. A lower dimensional object/being might be easy enough to comprehend, but comprehending is not all there is to knowledge.
Simply assuming Omniscience is foolhardy, to say the least. Being of a higher dimensional order is not a guarantee of having knowledge of lower dimensional entities (like the example I gave just now). Again, I would like to cite the example of Pre-retcon Beyonder from Marvel, who clearly falls under this category. There is also the Primal Monitor from DC, an equally revelant example. Kami Tenchi may or may not be omniscient, since there are no feats to prove it either way. I personally believe that he's not, although that's not what this thread is for.
P.S.: For the record, I also believe that Kami Tenchi is omnipotent.
@Death horseman94: Yet absolute power is not equal to absolute knowledge. I think every character on the current Ultipotence page is proof enough of that. Hence not having Omniscience is not against the base condition of being an omnipotent.
Yes, it is true that Omnipotence is a concept derived from religion. However, every religion describes the Supreme Being to be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenelovent, etc. Note that multiple terms are used to describe him/her/it, not just omnipotent. You might be confusing omnipotent with Supreme Being. Omnipotence is not equal to being the Supreme Being. Omipotence is simply being supremely powerful, nothing more and nothing less.
More than often, the two terms will apply to the same being. However my objective is not to debunk every fictional omnipotent character there is, but to change what our mind perceives when we think of Omnipotence. It should not be "God", but instead "a being with infinite power". That's all I'm trying to do with this thread, so I want to know if my manner of thinking makes sense to you.