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  • Hey guys!

    This might be an incredibly annoying question but is there such thing as anything more powerful than omnipotence? I know that omnipotence literally means all powerful and it is a bit of a self defeating question to answer this but if you were making a character that is more powerful than an omnipotent character as in that it would make an omnipotent character look like nothing, how would you phrase their power in words?

    Thank you

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    • I'd probably say that the character that was thought to be omnipotent was actually Nigh Omnipotent .  S/he could do just about anything (and I'd probably build that character up beforehand just to make it as impressive as possible) but got whipped by the new big bad (or big good if the new omni was a "good guy".

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    • Omnipotence is nigh-impossible to reliably prove, and many writers introduce characters officially stated as Omnipotent, only to have them defeated one way or another alongside the storyline, with the underlying aesop that no one is truly invincible (whether for dramatic dynamic or inspirational ascension on the protagonist's part - defeating the seemingly invincible is a very popular trope). So you could simply do the same as they do, it seems to be working well-enough.

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    • Well, by its very definition, there is nothing higher than genuine omnipotence. If anything does turn out to go beyond omnipotence as we understand it, it merely means that we have to change the definition of omnipotence, not that omnipotence is lacking.

      See, any character that is described as "omnipotent" yet has some restrictions or weaknessess is merely Nigh Omnipotent. The reasoning, IMO, being that we mortals cannot grasp genuine omnipotence because it's so far beyond us. So anything that goes far enough may seem like omnipotence to us, even when it isn't fully there yet. Do you get what I'm saying?

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    • Hello. I'm going to say again what I've said sometimes.



      There is something or someone greater than omnipotence.



      Some people tend to say no, right?

      So it depends on the fiction and will of the writer / author.



      If an author wants the Omnipotent of him to be homosexual, to eat lizards, to stand in the lotus position masturbating and to be a God.



      If an author wants nothing to overcome true omnipotence, so be it



      If an author wants there to be an infinite hierarchy of omnipotence, so be it.



      No matter, the author does whatever he wants.

      Did you see that over time the visions of omnipotence change?



      Omnipotence only by the specific element, absolute omnipotence, logical omnipotence, illogical omnipotence, etc ...  

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    • Yes it is possible, there can be established omnipotents or just one established omnipotent in a story in which all of them are truly omnipotent, yet there is still a being so powerful even the absolute genuine omnipotents are specks to this being.

      That's impossible I hear you saying, but do remember, this is fiction, the author's law goes.

      This is why, in my opinion, if taken to the apex extreme, Plot Empowerment could surpass omnipotence and even omni-creator, omni-embodiment, etc. since the author's will is the law of that fictional continuity.

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    • DO NOT. There is no way to exist a power superior to omnipotence, for by definition, omnipotence contains within itself ALL powers.

      From the point that there is something superior to such a character, what this character has is no longer omnipotence.

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    • Yes, but since it is fictional, the author has absolute say over what goes.

      They could make an omnipotent, and then make a character beyond omnipotence, since it's their world they can do as they please in their story.

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    • If an author calls "fire manipulation" of "dimensional manipulation", is it going to be in fact dimensional manipulation or is it going to be fire manipulation? The most that the author can do is say that omnipotence means something other than "all power". But from this, he is not talking about omnipotence, but calling omnipotence a thing that is not omnipotence. True omnipotence can not be overcome. No matter what the author says, this does not change the semantics of the word.

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    • Well, I'm not defending the practice of doing this to the cancer levels these things reach (It's bad writing, you have been warned), but these are examples that come to mind, in which the authors acknowledge the actual definition of omnipotence, but make things which surpass it anyways.


      http://suggsverse.wikia.com/wiki/Suggsverse_Wiki

      http://almighty-powers.wikia.com/wiki/Almighty_Powers_Wiki

      http://penultimate-pataverse.wikia.com/wiki/Levels_of_Omnipotence

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    • I could say that in none of the examples you quoted the author was really aware of what omnipotence is. "Omni" means EVERYTHING. It doesn't matter if the author says that omnipotence can't everything, since he has no power to change the meaning of "omni," and if he does, he will no longer be talking about the same thing. From the moment a character can EVERYTHING, it is impossible for something to be above it, for whatever it is, if it can do everything, it has power over it as well.

      In Suggs' case, he isn't talking about true omnipotence, by the mere fact that the characters he calls omnipotent can't do everything. Penultimate Pataverse is another. There are no "levels of omnipotence" as this would require that there would be "levels of everything". Everything doesn't assume levels, but all levels are contained in the "everything". To say that there are "levels of omnipotence" is ignorance to the extreme.

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    • Could it be said there is yet to be a true omnipotent being in fiction?

      Since all of them are limited to their creations.

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    • In fact, I have always said that there are no true omnipotents in fiction for the sake of logic. I could say that a character like Kami Tenchi for example is inferior to a character like The Writer in DC Comics, because the Writer is literally the one who writes the stories. If we also remember that The Writer is a set of normal humans with human weaknesses, in fact, there is no true omnipotent in fiction.

      But anyway, this does not have much to do with the subject.

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    • Lol  what about our universe! 

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    • Was that a question for me?

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    • Yeah kinda

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    • It isn't for me to answer this, but for yourself. It depends on whether you believe in God or not. I'm not in a position to determine this.

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    • What if an omnipotent wanted to make a being stronger than them?

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    • If he does something superior to him, he automatically ceases to be omnipotent, for something he can not do comes into being (and if there is something he can not, he is not omnipotent).

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    • So a sort of handing over kind of thing?

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    • I would say yes.

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    • But what if they wanted to make something stronger than them while still being omnipotent?

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    • It's omnipotent dude anything possible 

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    • Comprehending omnipotent isn't our limit ant brain can handle. 

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    • If he does something superior to him, he creates something he can not do. He will automatically renounce omnipotence. To say "to create something superior to him and to remain omnipotent" is a completely meaningless question, for if he continued to be omnipotent, then the thing he created is not superior to him, for he still has power over it. Junctions of meaningless words don't magically acquire meaning just because we speak "an omnipotent can?".

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    • Well dude that's the logic of humans . Omnipotent can create logic etc so I'm sure they can create something superior then them at  same time still be omnipotent kinda like paradox or the omnipotent will be meaningless. I mean what's the point of power where you can do literally anything 

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    • If there is something above you, you have no power over this thing. It is an extremely simple consequence. Trying to escape from this is to give an answer that absolutely makes no sense and literally does not answer anything.

      If a question has been asked, obviously the expected response has to make sense. If it is not to make sense, why the question?

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    • But if they are beyond rationality, logic, and common sense and can ignore paradoxes then I see no reason why they can't fuck over logic and simultaneously remain truly omnipotent while still having something above them. It's illogical yes, but so are they.

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    • That's what I'm trying to say thumps up for you void. 

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    • That depends on the theological interpretation you have, but I don't want to get into theology here. The only thing I want to know is: If you know and expect an answer that absolutely makes no sense, why did you ask questions after all, if you knew that the answer would not really answer anything?

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    • You know I'm getting really tired of multiple omnipotent questions someone should just make an entire wiki for this lol

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    • I? Idk, I've never seen you here before. But I'm also tired anyway, so I made a post on VSBW that answers several of those questions. But it doesn't seem to have made much headway.

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    • I'm not talking about it from a theological standpoint. Just the properties it implies.


      Also I actually did read that, and I do agree with what you said, just had the thought that if they can do everything and have no limits, how can we apply a limit on them from thereout?


      I'd imagine at a default they can screw over logic, so they should, in theory, be able to simultaneously create something above them yet still be omnipotent.

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    • The concept of omnipotence and its properties arose in philosophy-theology. The very fact that we are talking about omnipotence already implies that we are talking about.

      No by default, this is just an interpretive question. The only thing required by default is that it is above all things. If logic is above all things and it is logic, it would already be above all else (just an example).

      "Everything" takes on many different meanings. In one, an illogical proposition is not considered "thing", therefore it is not part of "all things", and therefore "doing all things" doesn't include illogical propositions. Again, this depends on an interpretive point, since an ambiguous word takes on many different meanings.

      I personally believe in the anti-scholastic view about which I spoke in the post.

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    • So what if one could do the illogical? Such as Logic Manipulators, Paradox Manipulators, etc.


      I'm referring of course to "metapotence" which to me is simply what omnipotence is.

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    • A FANDOM user
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