• Imouto-tan
    Imouto-tan closed this thread because:
    15:30, June 17, 2017

    Matthew. She's definitely an Overpowered Character, no questions asked. However, she isn't unbeatable.

    The Crying Child is from here .

    The Crying Child  Matthew is an incredibly overpowered character. Some even told me Matthew is far superior to any entity on this wikia. For reasons very  obvious , i disagreed to such a notion. Just because she is Omnipotent does not mean she defeats everyone on this wikia. However, she is not unbeatable , and this match-up is set up to prove this exact fact . 

    Round 1 : You fight ( As in you also get a random power, and YOU will be fighting T.C.C along beside your favorite characters. I will explain that detail better .  ) , using ONE  Original Character you own ( Either.on this site, or any site, or as long as you remember their powers and abilities [ Save some place or Original Characters in similar design to Suggsverse, for obvious reasons ] . I really am flexible about this one detail  to be honest . As long as you can detail exactly how the fight would play out. You can also choose up to 5 random characters fom this site   to assist him as well. You can have up to five allies for your OC [ These allies are either from Vs battles wikia ] . However, once you pick some at random , you cannot go back and change it up for the following rounds. What you get is what you get. They fight The Crying Child , who wins ?

    By The Way , You have the combined power of ALL  of your allies you have selected . This is to make it as fair as i can possibly make it. If you get a tier 0, consider this fight essentially yours, however, you have to use your head if you get anything lower than tier 0 . So ... hope for the best. So... For this round ... Her Omnipotence Sharing is HEAVILY  restricted, Unawareness weakness is activated , passive powers can activate at any given time,  The goal is for you and your characters to survive for 24 hours, with her as the hunter,  and for ALL of your teamates to survive. If even one of your teamates  dies, you lose the round. 

    Round 2 : The OC & the characters you selected gets an additional random power .If you do not get a power, keep on rolling until you do. Unawareness weakness activated for Matthew , passive abilities still can be used . Same goal as before

    Round 3 : Her Omnipotence Sharing ability activates subconsciously. For this round, the goal is to keep out of her reach for 24 hours, and essentially same goal as before

    WHO WINS !!!

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    • I shall give an example....

      R1: I'll use Sammantha as my main partner . I would have Hitomi normally , but it is usually My allies are ( and yes i chose them randomly ) : Aragorn , Nightmare Kirby ,  Sayo , & Wave as my allies. Nightmare would scare Matthew, so i would have to do everything in my power to keep Matthew calm, all the while avoiding him altogether simultaneously. As long as Nightmare doesn't do anything too stupid, we won't die. And, i have to be capable of not killing her ( She's a glass canon Omnpotent ) , because something terrible occurs if that happens.

      R2: The power i drew was ... Reading Empowerment . God dang it ! Well.. I can actually make this work. I can have Sammantha distract Matthew , and while this is going on, i can max out my power by reading a few books.

      R3: And this is where my  biggest problem lies. Her Omnipotence Sharing ability is mad overpowered. It essentially shares her Omnipotent power with others, and gives them Omnipotence as well. If you created these beings, then use Omnipotence Sharing, guess what you have ? An Omnpotent Servant. NOT GOOD . The ONLY WAY i am surviving this is if i can dodge all of the servant's attacks and knock out Matthew, NOT kill. Killing Matthew is a good way to get yourself kiled, as she reverts to an Higher-DImensional Eldiritch Abomination once her physical body is destroyed .   We'll be killed  if that happens.

      ( That is how you do it. ) 

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    • First, I don't see the necessity of the elements of randomness.
      Second, our loss condition ("If even one of your teamates dies, you lose the round") is totally unfair because it rules out all strategies that involve sacrificing one or many characters.
      And finally, for the third round, the characters we chose- I mean, the one character we chose and the five we got at random just run away from her, so... How does this prove that Matthew's not unbeatable again? Besides, what can you even do against Omnipotence Sharing anyway? Any one of the servants could just will our party out of existence and be over with them in an instant. And even worse, we can't kill Matthew because she transforms into a hyperdimensional eldrich abomination.
      No matter how I look at it, there's no winning this one.

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    • Hmm...

      The idea is not to get in a head on head fight if your MUCH weaker than she is. The rule was to have balance, but I will remove it. Same for randomness, but let's just say for now you can choose any character from those sites, to give people a fighting chance.

      Secondly, Omnipotence Sharing is a tough ability to get around.  End of story for that. But, you can use Matthew's unawareness against her .  Killing is not allowed, but since she is essentially a glass canon, you can knock her out if you use strategy.

      Thirdly, you CAN win. You have to either survive for 24 hours ,knock her out, or make it so she doesn't want to fight. Either of these options are viable.

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    • Author Authority, problem solved

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    • ^ Would equal a stalemate. 

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    • Transfictional Author Authority, then.
      There's literally nothing a fictional character can do against that. No matter how infinitely greater than infinitely transcendent omnipotent++ a character is, they will always be bound by one thing: fiction. And if they are fictional, it's as easy for a Transfictional Author to defeat them as it is to write/type and/or erase/delete a couple words.
      Thing is, fictional characters can't act on their own. Thay always have to have a writer/artist/programmer behind them dictating them what to do and when to do it, otherwise they couldn't do anything.

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    • ^ You clearly didnt read my links. Matthew has Author's Authority. Mirror move match. 

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    • Matthew's authority over fiction certainly cannot rival with a Transfictional Author's authority over fiction as she herself is part of said fiction.

      The one and only way a fictional character with Author Authority (or any fictional character for that matter) could beat their writer (or any real life person for that matter) is by literally stepping into real life, which they can't.
      If you're going to argue that they can, then prove it by demonstrating that a fictional character can cross the boundary between reality and fiction.
      And no, Deadpool killing his writers doesn't count because he stepped into a fictional representation of the real world, not actual reality, to kill fictional representations of his writers, not his actual, real life writers. In the end, it was all just ink/pixels on paper/screen.

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    • So ... omnipotence vs. omnipotence vs. omnipotence. This is going to be fun. Any other omnipotent characters wanna get into this?

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    • "He stepped into a fictional representation of the real world to kill fictional representations of his writers."

      Exactly. Fiction can mimicry reality for funny mindscrew scenarios, but in the end it's still fiction, and characters are still just characters. The best they can do is borrow their writer's power via synchronization (that's exactly what Author Authority is : author-level power via author avatar status), but *beating* their writer is fundamentally impossible, and any such display is just the writer messing with the audience ^ ^

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    • [Ahem] I did say stalemate. 

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    • Thing is, if the transfictional Author doesn't want a stalemate, then there won't be a stalemate because that would be going against the Author's will, which is impossible for anything fictional, including omnipotent characters.

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    • A character having Author Authority means that said author is basically "piloting" said character to fool around in-universe, so a "character vs writer" scenario is inherently excluded.

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    • other than transfictional author authority, what if i picked xeranthemum from suggsverse?

      strongest character in fiction

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    • I call absolute bullshit on that.
      No matter what the writer (in this case, Suggs) writes, a character (in this case, Xeranthemum) can transcend neither fiction, nor the writer's will and nothing any writer will ever write can change that fact.

      A character is just a tool used by the writer to tell a story. A tool has no other motion than the one it is given by the hand manipulating it.
      Have you ever seen a (manual) screwdriver screwing screws by itself or rotating in the direction opposite to its user's hand's?

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    • i said the same thing, she has abilities that dont even exist

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    • If we exclude Transfictional Author Authority, I'd say that (Irrational) Indeterminacy could defeat both Xeranthemun and Matthew.

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    • True Omnipotence pretty much hardcounters Irrational Indeterminacy . Matthew & Jeanette both have it. It even says : 

      • Users can define, but cannot truly surpass true Omnipotence in logical or irrational feats. 
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    • I reject that limitation since it directly contradicts the nature of Indeterminacy.

      Capabilities: "User's power, strength, etc. is beyond all concepts of scaling or definition."

      Comparing an being of undetermined power to an omnipotent being's power is invalid as it establishes a scale when, by definition, the being undetermined power's power is beyond all concepts of scaling or definition.

      Also, there's no such thing as "True Omnipotence" within fiction and it if it exists in reality, it has yet to be scientifically proven.

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    • SO your literally saying an entity with Indetermincy ... they are beyond Omnipotent. I have... no words.

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    • any thread involving an omnipotent character versus anything should be deleted

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    • Quote the part where I say "A user of Indetermincy is beyond Omnipotent." If you can't, it means I didn't literally say that and it's just you misusing the word "literally".

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    • Omnipotence is the highest level of power. There are various way to interprete the idea and give it form according to each story, but there is inherently nothing beyond it. At least that's how the SP Wiki rolls.

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    • It depends how you define Omnipotence.
      And for me, it's on a case by case basis as the "How?" the character is omnipotent is much more important than the fact that they are, which is a position I hold for every power because it's that "How?" that we use to determine the outcome.

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    • As mentioned above, it is the SPW's official stance. Personally I feel the same, without some credible in-universe justification Omnipotence is just maxed-out Plot Power in the end, with Author Authority as its most straightforward example.

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    • I guess there has to be some standard. If not, then this entire Wiki will fall into the Suggs Abyss. 

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    • Exactly ^ ^

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    • I think the specification of the mechanisms behind their Omnipotence would avoid that problem as it would allow us to determine the limits of the power.

      And yes, I just talked about the limits of Omnipotence because I define Omnipotence not as being all power, but as being maximally powerful, by which I mean being able to accomplish anything that is logically possible.
      Ultimately, irrational/True Omnipotence does not exist as the minds that created and define the concept are themselves restricted by logic and reason.

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    • So the highest justifiable level of Nigh Omnipotence then, rather than full-blown Omnipotence ? Since the concept is mostly defined by its boundlessness and "ain't gotta explain" logic dodge.

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    • In the eyes of a Transfictional Author, yes, they are limited to Nigh Omnipotence within fiction.
      From the point of view of a fictional character, it is full-blown Omnipotence since those fictional characters are unaware that they are limited by the logic limiting the Transfictional Author's mind, hence my use of the word "ultimately".

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    • If their power can still grow, it mean it isn't maxed-out yet, which in turn confirm they weren't quite omnipotent yet (couldn't do thing they now can). A credible illusion of Omnipotence would be to be permanently unable to find anything you can't do.

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    • "And yes, I just talked about the limits of Omnipotence because I define Omnipotence not as being all power, but as being maximally powerful, by which I mean being able to accomplish anything that is logically possible."

      As I thought, the inherent meaning of omnipotence has officially been lost in this debate.

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    • It is a personal definition, as clearly mentioned.

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    • Something as cut and dry as the context behind that word isn't subject to interpretation. If you are unreasonably altering standard definition, then there is absolutely no need to debate as the centerpoint of the discussion has been rendered moot and there is no chance for resolution (unless you agree to disagree) because there lies a discrepancy of basic interpretation arising from contrasting definitions.

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    • DYBAD
      DYBAD removed this reply because:
      09:57, June 17, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Anything can be interpreted, even the things you don't want people to. No definition is ever set in stone, every single one of them has kept evolving again and again over the course of human history.

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    • Wai-What? Okay, I might need read through the chat to get some context. Hold on.

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    • Definitions evolve over time; however, the heart of the context will almost always remain in the descriptivist's linguistic alterations. When you remove that, it is an entirely different word that didn't gradually evolve, but was forcefully changed in order to create a flagrant misrepresentation to oppose. There is a solid difference between interpretations evolving to accomodate cultural and political change and dismissing the basic principle of the definition.

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    • oh sure, remove my reply

      look, i know i'm not a mod so this really isn't any of my business but it makes no sense to keep this thread, or any thread on here going if the original topic of it derailed

      like, you could make a new thread and argue about whether or not the definition of omnipotence is something subjective or objective there, i really don't care.

      granted, the original topic of this specific thread is absolutely stupid

      But of course that's none of my business. Carry on. 

      *sips tea*

      DYBAD Edit : Your post was deleted for trolling.

      Slapson Edit: With all due respect, I was not trolling. Trolling would imply that I was purposely trying to be shocking to trigger someone. This was not my intention. In fact, the post you deleted was me only pointing out why this thread should be closed.

      If you mean the part where I was pointing out that Matthew is a "shitty OC", then you should understand that this character is not exactly the pinnacle of even the most basic of good writing and character development, and that his creator is trying way too fucking hard to explain why Matthew isn't OP when he has the fucking quintessential OP power, even if he isn't aware of it. The Crying Child, in my honest personal opinion, is one of the worst OCs that have ever been posted on this site.

      I'm not saying you have to be a god at writing. I make shitty characters all the time.

      I'm saying that you shouldn't have to have giant walls of text to get your point accross that your character is "Muh pure omnipotent eldritch abomination who is also trans and did i mention that she's trans and nobody knows her gender even though i keep saying it ^^" and then make two seperate threads in a sad attempt to prove that your omnipotent character isn't OP at all.

      That, and the fact (and this might just be due to the fact that omnipotence is a mess of paradoxes and contradictions) the entire concept of Matthew contradicts itself. A lot. You can see it for yourself on his character sheet.

      But, once again, I'm not the author, I did not make this character, so this is none of my business and I'm just a jackass troll petty nuisance memelord who doesn't know any better. Carry on.

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